More tough situations

[kdotsky]

$50 stars SNG.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t3475)
Button (t6385)
SB (t1055)
Hero (t2585)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t400.

The guy to my left has only 5BB - I don't want to bust here. I think I have the best hand, but I don't really want to push and get in a coinflip, although he probably folds most of the time if i push. He hasn't been outrageous with steals, in fact probably has gone light on them considering his stack here. I think of just folding, but then decide to call and see the flop. Do you play this more aggressively?

Flop: (t1300) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t600</font>, Hero calls t600.

I figure this might be a way ahead / way behind situation here and decide I'll make the most and loose the least by check-calling. Although this might not be completely true with the flush draw. Is it better, since I just want this hand to end considering the situation, to just lead out?

Turn: (t2500) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

He thinks forever after I check. I think he thinks I am slowplaying a flush or something. Bad check again?

River: (t2500) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, computer explodes (don't want results to sway responses)

Thoughts?
Thanks.

[curtains]

My advice is to get dealt 42o in these situations.

I'll come up with a real answer in a bit /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kdotsky]

Ya know, that's actually good advice. I almost wanted to pretend I didn't have a decent hand so I could just fold and not strain my brain for five streets.

[Seadood228]

I don't think you can let go here. I might have put out a defensive river bet of around 1/3 the pot, but I can understand how difficult the situation would be if you are raised allin.

Personally, I think this is one of those situations where I wouldn't want to get too tricky on the flop. You are more than likely ahead (if you are behind then it's just bad luck), and will get a call from almost any ace if you checkraise allin. If he has junk or an underpair, I'd hate to see him turn or river a 2 outer on the bubble.

Plus, there's pretty much no way you aren't going to lose all your chips if you are behind on the flop. If he has a bigger ace or flopped a set, he's going to milk all your chips anyway.

[curtains]

Important note about the "either way ahead or behind concept". If you are way behind, you are losing all your chips on this flop. Do you expect him to not get all his money in here with a hand that beats top pair Queen kicker!
If you are ahead and he has like a lone 4,2 or a pair, you dont want him sticking around sucking out on you. I'd never play it this slow on the flop on the bubble.

(I'll get to preflop later)

[Seadood228]

So would you move in on the flop or go for a checkraise allin?

Personally I think you'll still get the same amound of folding equity either way, because he's only calling with at least A rag IMO.

Perhaps I'm being greedy though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[curtains]

I think check raise is reasonable on the flop. I just dont like check call, and then maybe giving a free river.

[lastchance]

Once you hit the ace on the flop, your hand has to be good, otherwise fold PF. I'd push all the time, and I'd probably be wrong doing that. You need to commit all your chips somewhere down the line once you hit an Ace. I actually like the check and wish I'd do it more often on the flop, but after that bet, you're all-in, there's too much in the middle.

As for PF, it's an insanely tough spot to be in.

[curtains]

I think allin is correct preflop.

[kdotsky]

I have reasonable folding equity preflop. The problem is I still don't want AQ vs 88 allin with the 5BB stack next to me laughing his way to the bank.

I think preflop is just as important as the other streets, because I'm deciding if I want to put myself in a tough situation when I hit, as I did.

[curtains]

I understand the reasons for not pushing, I just prefer pushing. You can't always assume the worst. The guy is in perfect steal position, and could easily just have K7s or something.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop is just as important as the other streets, because I'm deciding if I want to put myself in a tough situation when I hit, as I did.

[/ QUOTE ]
What tough decision? The only tough decision is when you miss and the flop goes check-check or something.

TP2K has to be good at this point in the tourney, otherwise you shouldn't play. You have to get your chips in the middle whenever you hit an ace or queen (two overcards to a flush is also a good situation to be in). If you can't get your chips in the middle when you hit top pair, calling is a horrible idea.

The flop is pretty clear-cut, IMHO. At that point, get your chips in the middle and hope he doesn't have AK or AA.

PF, I probably move-in. Or I fold. I can call too, but remember, AQ wants to see 5 cards, rather call with 99/TT.

[Seadood228]

AQ does want to see 5 cards, but nobody wants to see a coinflip at that stage. I think you are going to get called by a bigstack with a pair quite a bit here, and it's a situation I'd like to avoid.

You are getting over 2/1 on a call, perfect odds for flopping a big pair.

It's close though, and also depends on your opponents reads. IMO though, his stack is just big enough to gamble with many speculative hands, hands that you are only slightly ahead of.

[lastchance]

All what you said is true. Coinflip situation = bad, pot odds = good. What do you think about calling and pushing (or check-pushing) any A, K, or Q + flush draw flop?

Oh, and what's his calling range here (if you move in)? 77+, AK-AJ?

[kdotsky]

Big stack checks river, hits two-pair with K-3. I bust out the next hand with 66 against him (which I also posted about), but I think I was just tilting because I immediately realized it was a bad push.

[curtains]

The more I think about it the more I hate calling preflop. I think pushing allin is clearly correct, as your hand is just too strong 3 handed, and the shortstack just isn't short enough to warrant such exotic play.

[lastchance]

It's 4 handed. Think that makes quite a bit of difference.

[Seadood228]

4 handed definitely makes a big difference, especially up against a big stack who has a lot of chips to gamble with..

but....

Let's just say you have AK.. Without thinking too much, I probably would have autopushed, and theoretically these hands have about the same value in this situation.

hmmm... I think this could be a job for Eastbay's new tool.

[curtains]

It's 3 handed once UTG folds, that's what I meant. It plays differently than if it was 3 handed to begin the hand.

[curtains]

Funny, I was going to mention that although AK is generally a much better hand than AQ, in this case it's less so than usual, however I feel that everyone would agree that pushing is correct with AK and that it isn't close.

The reason the difference between AK+AQ is less relevant here is because it's unlikely that the button is raising with typical early-mid position raising hands such as AK, KK, QQ etc.

Also if our opponent has a hand like KJ or any king for that matter, there is a decent chance they will fold to our allin (although this is player dependant). If we knew there would be a showdown, these are the hands that signify the main difference between AK and AQ in this spot, as the king would not be dominated.

[TheAmp]

Pre-flop:
You have a big hand. Big stack is in steal position. Therefore, folding is totally out of the question. If you call, what are you going to do on the flop when you don't hit? (most of the time) You are out of position against the big stack so you are going to give it to him. You know that. He knows that. So the time to think about this situation on the flop is NOW, pre-flop.

Thus, pushing is clear:
1)You have folding equity. Big stack should be scared of your hand, since you are putting your life on the line. If you win, he will not be able to take advantage of the bubble like he did before.

2)If he calls, you may very well dominate him. That's a great gamble for you. Even if he calls you with a medium pocket pair, you still have a good drawing hand that will see all five cards.

3) Yes, you don't want to lose before short stack busts. But you should see the potential gain as well, not only the risk. I want to remind you that you are playing against two bigger stacks. Reasonable risks are called for.

"Columbus took a chance, so I am going to take one too..." - T.J. Cloutier

Flop - you hit your Ace, so your job is to get all the chips in the middle. That's your game plan. There are a few ways to do that: play your opponent here, according to your reads.

[nokona13]

If I were playing this, I'd probably be pushing pre-flop. I can see your point about calling since you're getting pretty good odds to flop either A, Q, or two+ clubs with overs. If you call, I think you clearly have to push, or C/R all-in. In fact, I think if you're calling here pre-flop, you might need to stop-n-go here, regardless of the flop.

[Phil Van Sexton]

I'm pushing pre-flop. If it's close between calling and pushing, I'm pushing.

I lean towards pushing to discourage players from trying to steal my blinds with small raises on future hands (assuming I survive this hand). A stop-and-go doesn't really accomplish this.

I also push on the flop. If he has an A, I'll get paid off (or lose) either way. If he doesn't, I'd rather just take the pot down now before he gets to see another card.

[RobGW]

Excellent point Phil. When it gets to the bubble like this you have to train your opponents not to steal or limp in when its your BB. I want them to fold to me everytime so I get to play each round for free. After they see me push once or twice they usually will fold to me unless they have a good hand. Now I know when they raise or even try to trap by limping that they probably have a hand they are willing to go to the felt with so I can avoid the trap.

[kdotsky]

These are good points. If it's a tough decision between calling and pushing preflop, this factor definitely makes pushing preflop the more attractive option.

[lastchance]

Yeah, I can't believe what I was thinking about folding or calling this hand earlier. (late at night) Easy Push.