Pocket jacks and a set

[ChipStacking]

$200 buy in no limit game. I'm in the big blind with pocket jacks. Table has a bunch of weak tights with 1 or 2 weak loose.

Under the gun and 3 others all limp for 5. I see the jacks and raise making it 30. ( Potential mistake here. I maybe should have bet more, but I feel that those that called would have called more.) All 4 people call the raise. Goes to the flop with 5 people.

Flop comes down Ace, Jack 10 with 2 clubs. I'm first to act and I feel if the straight is out there he is the only person who can call, I still have outs to beat it. I push my remaining $400+.

Under the gun calls, button nearly calls but then folds. He has the K / Q and bricks hit on the turn and river.

Did I overplay this? Checking feels too weak to me here, if I check and it goes around, then any face and any club draw gets a free card, and maybe some person with 2 pair bets out thinking he is good. Depending on the amount of the bet I can't call.

Glad to hear your opinions.

[soah]

I would have raised it a bit more preflop. Once UTG calls $30 everyone else usually calls too. That's not so likely to happen with a $40-50 raise and you certainly don't want all four of them seeing the flop with you in a raised pot. Flop push is fine. The same clowns that play KQ for a raise will also pay off with two pair on this flop as well, and checking could cost you the pot.

I'd love to know who UTG was though. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jcmoussa]

youre stupid.

-J.C. Moussa

Poker Authority.

[theBruiser500]

good post JCMOussa. everyone please pay attention to what he said he is right

[ZBTHorton]

I don't think I push, but I make a huge bet.

If he re-raised you all in, then you might be able to lay down this monster.

But remember. You've got 7 outs on the turn, 10 outs on the river. You better be SURE he has you beat...and I don't think it's very easy to make that read.

[greywolf]

this forum is hilarius.

[Jason Strasser]

bruiser is not kidding

[Cornell Fiji]

Why did you raise pf with your jacks out of position? I don't mind it if you are playing them for set value and the raise is to tie people to their hands but I have a feeling that your thought process went something like "I have JJ, Phil Helmuth says that is a really good hand, I should raise."

With 5 people in the hand I would probably go for a check-raise all in on the flop, I agree with bruiser et al. in that because your comment "I feel if the straight is out there he is the only person who can call, I still have outs to beat it. I push my remaining $400+" does seem pretty stupid.

Why are you making a bet where you will only get called if you are beat? I think that you are wrong. You will get called by A /images/graemlins/club.gifx /images/graemlins/club.gif, AA, TT, AJ, AT, K /images/graemlins/club.gifx /images/graemlins/club.gif in most games but if you think that you will only get called if beat then why are you making the bet. I have a feeling that your thought process went something like "I have a set of jacks. Phil Helmuth says that is a really good hand, I should bet all in..."

Note: Please post stack sizes and relevant reads with your post. Also, I think that it might be constructive for you to post your thought process when making bets. This probably isn't a good idea for some of the more advanced posters but for inexperienced players like yourself it is important to get feedback on both your actions and the impulses that drove you to your actions. I also think that by posting your thought process you will be forced to concentrate on the reasons behind your actions while at the table, this will only make you better.

-Steve

[ChipStacking]

Soah, I have not seen him before. Just some kid.

[ChipStacking]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise pf with your jacks out of position? I don't mind it if you are playing them for set value and the raise is to tie people to their hands but I have a feeling that your thought process went something like "I have JJ, Phil Helmuth says that is a really good hand, I should raise."

[/ QUOTE ]

I made the raise preflop because with jacks, I don't want to go up against 4 people who all got in for a limp. Also, I failed to mention that I was by far the most aggressive person on the table and had only shown down premium hands. The majority of the table was wary of me. I had won 2 hands prior with aggression and I believe that was one of the reasons the under the gun called preflop, and the others fell in line due to the pot getting bigger. Please Phil out of it. He has nothing to do with my thought process. I have not read his book. I've been a winning player for 3 years now. I just don't post too terribly often.

[ QUOTE ]

Why are you making a bet where you will only get called if you are beat? I think that you are wrong. You will get called by A /images/graemlins/club.gifx /images/graemlins/club.gif, AA, TT, AJ, AT, K /images/graemlins/club.gifx /images/graemlins/club.gif in most games but if you think that you will only get called if beat then why are you making the bet. I have a feeling that your thought process went something like "I have a set of jacks. Phil Helmuth says that is a really good hand, I should bet all in..."

[/ QUOTE ]

You are over estimating the quality of player at this table. Also, every hand you just posted there aside from AA and the KQ, I am ahead of. I had everyone covered except the UTG and he had me only by a little. The players at the table didn't like jepordizing their entire stack unless they have the nuts or close to it.

Again, Mr Helmuth had nothing to do with my decision. Please keep your snide comments to yourself. I appreciate your opinions on any actual Poker.

[KowCiller]

[ QUOTE ]
You are over estimating the quality of player at this table.

[/ QUOTE ]

ChipStacking-

I think his point is that if you're only getting called when you're behind (as you indicated in your original post), you shouldn't make the all-in bet. Assuming this is the local B&M game I frequently play in, I can safely say others will pay you off with a lesser holding than the nuts.

I don't hate your pf raise, although I would raise more from that spot...perhaps overbetting the pot to $40. I don't think it's awful to raise here against the clowns that frequent this game, since they'll limp with basically any two suited or connected cards, any Ace, and most kings.

As far as the flop bet, there was $150 in the pot on the flop. I think betting the pot in this spot is better than pushing, because if the straight is out there, you could also be called by AK, AQ as well as the aforementioned hands. At least this way if KQ re-raises all in you may have some overlay from other callers who are drawing thin.

In my experience, these players are generally worse than the PP $25max game.

Hope this helps.

KoW

[SpeakEasy]

[ QUOTE ]
$200 buy in no limit game. I'm in the big blind with pocket jacks. Table has a bunch of weak tights with 1 or 2 weak loose.

Under the gun and 3 others all limp for 5. I see the jacks and raise making it 30. ( Potential mistake here. I maybe should have bet more, but I feel that those that called would have called more.) All 4 people call the raise. Goes to the flop with 5 people.

Flop comes down Ace, Jack 10 with 2 clubs. I'm first to act and I feel if the straight is out there he is the only person who can call, I still have outs to beat it. I push my remaining $400+.

Under the gun calls, button nearly calls but then folds. He has the K / Q and bricks hit on the turn and river.

Did I overplay this? Checking feels too weak to me here, if I check and it goes around, then any face and any club draw gets a free card, and maybe some person with 2 pair bets out thinking he is good. Depending on the amount of the bet I can't call.

Glad to hear your opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Pre-flop, I would not raise with JJ here. Generally, you raise to (1) build the pot or (2) thin the field. What was the purpose of your raise? The only purpose for a raise here would be to thin the field. This will likely not work in your specific situation unless you make a substantially larger raise because (a) you're out of position and (b) the pot is already multi-way when its your action. The purpose of a raise here should not be to build a pot, because you're likely behind if one or more overcards flop and you don't hit a set, plus you're out of position.

2. On the flop, pay attention to FLOP TEXTURE. There are lots of possible draws, and a few hands with high cards would have you beat. KQ is certainly a possibility. What is your objective with any lead bet here? Answer: (1) win the pot outright, or (2) gain information that you are behind. Without knowing anything about these players, the presumption is that an all-in bet will likely only be called by a hand that beats you, which makes the all-in bet an awful play. I would not risk my entire stack on the assumption that the field may contain a bad player who will mistakenly also make an equally bad play and call an all-in bet with only 2 pair or a draw. A bet of about 2/3 the pot will achieve your objective -- it will ruin the odds of any drawing hand, but should be countered by a raise from the hands that have you beat.

Hope this advice helps. Ignore those that just call you stupid -- we're here to learn.

[trillig]

That flop was unfortunate, recognize that and back off....

Trips is great, but easy to see KQ here and flush draw will get there often enough, and magoos don't fold flush draws.

KQ and AJ suited or not I am seeing abused A TON now.

Thank you CPS! LOL!

Yeah, it has bit me in the BEhind a few times lately too, price of poker...

-Bri