Need pointers on more aggresive play...newb here...

[rockythecat99]

Ok first off I am new to the game. I am in my second month of playing. I played mostly ring games where I did very well(2 grand made so far /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) . Then after reading sshe i bought Harrington's book absolutely loved it and have been playing tourneys for the past week about 8 maybe total. I did play a free roll before I read the book which I won. and made a final table of another free roll. This week I moved on to real money tourneys. I played the pacific 30+3 and finished 9th,63th,72 I think. Been playing the 10+1 pokerstars and have finished 73rd, 98 and 45th I think.

Anyway point of this is that as you can see I get to the top 100 but are pretty short stacked at that point where I have to make tough decisions and pick my spots going all in. I pretty much follow Harrington's tight style,(god please take out that second book soon). I want to know how can I be more aggressive. What book if any will help me with this or what are any pointers you guys have that will help me out with this. I am sick of getting to the top 100 to only be short stacked. Thanks in advance.

[bmxreed36]

This is a part of my game that I've just recently been working on also. The middle stages until about the money is where most people will either acquire a very nice stack or be nearly blinded out. Remember that those few times that you place very high will wipe out the times you didn't make the money and then some.
My initial tips would be to try to have an above average stack going into this stage. Easier said than done, but I sometimes take a chance or two to double up or win a big pot just to put myself in a spot to become more aggressive.

The later in the tournament it gets, the value of posiiton goes up quite a bit. I think the gap of hands you will play is much wider from early to late position here.

Pay close attention to the table dynamics. Who is folding almost every hand? Who is raising quite a bit? Is the big stack limping half the time? How are they playing after the flop after raising, limping, calling, etc and are there any patterns to the amount they raise or the hands they will play in certain spots?

So now if you are on the button or cutoff and the big stack who often limps but usually fold to a big raise limps in, another person limps in behind you and you've noticed that he always raises his good hands, and the blinds have been playing tight, it would be a good time to put in a nice size raise with a wide range of hands. If one just calls but checks the flop, make your bet and take down an even bigger pot.

Pay attention to stack sizes very carefully. Mostly stay away from looser big stacks and desperate short stacks, but take advantage of the common tightness of the medium stacks.

If you are seeing multi-handed flops, pay attention to how often each person will bet the flop and with what. There are always a few others who are trying to be aggressive (betting draws, second pair, etc) so don't get scared out of a hand that is yours after you've seen how they've played some other flops. Hope this helps some, basically remember that position is extremely helpful and just experiment some with different ways to take a pot down without showing your cards.

[Bernas]

Go back and reread his book. The style Harrington is suggesting is aggressive. Tight aggressive. By using this style, you should have a very decent sized stack when you get to that point in the Stars tourney.

Are you leaking chips somehow?

I can tell you the obvious, that during the bubble you want to be stealing a lot more often, but it sounds like your problem might lie elswhere.

[crookedhat99]

[ QUOTE ]
Go back and reread his book. The style Harrington is suggesting is aggressive. Tight aggressive. By using this style, you should have a very decent sized stack when you get to that point in the Stars tourney.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there's any gaurantee for the size of you're stack from following a defined strategy. A lot of it is the cards.
You're results have all been good, and you've only played 8 tournies so I think you don't have much to worry about. A huge part of getting really far in a tourny is luck, and if you continue to play tournies, based on what you've done so far, you'll bound to have a tourny where you'll be catching real good cards. If you add the solid play to good cards you'll get a real good finish. Basically what I'm saying is, it's too early for you to worry about it...keep trying and then assess you're tourny play.

gl
-luke

[rockythecat99]

Thank you both for the pointers really appreciated. I don't think I am leaking chips. I usually play very tight as like maybe 5-10 hands maybe on average probably. When I get into a pot though I usually take it down 90% of the time. I seldom go all in or make a play similar to that during the early stages of the tourney. I think my problem is that I need to start playing more hands and stop waiting for good hands to come my way. I do steal the blinds from time to time if I see they are very tight.

The problem when I get to the top 100 I am usually in the 50th position or hovering around there. The blinds usually (maybe its bad luck) are chips leaders or big stacks at my table and defend their blinds to any raise except an all in. ( I don't go all in because I don't want to risk my tourney on a average hand just to get the blinds).

Also I am a begginner tourney player just started a week ago or so. So my mind is still set in the preflop requirements of sshe because I had mostly played ring games in my first month of playing this game. I need to know what kind of hands I can play what position? Are there any books with good recommendations. I know HOH has some but they seem eerily similar to those in sshe with a tweak here or there. Actually hands like KQo he doesn't recommend to play much from utg but in sshe it is fine to play it.

So yeah I think preflop is my problem not playing enough hands. Post flop I usually outplay my opponents. Thanks a bunch for the help guys. Keep the tips coming.

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there's any gaurantee for the size of you're stack from following a defined strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said defined strategy. I was referring to a style. If you follow that style, and don't leak chips then you should have a solid stack in these tournies come bubble time.


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A lot of it is the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you believe that, I think you should be playing limit poker. I would say %10 is the cards. You should be able to build a solid sized stack without getting dealt any high PP.

[crookedhat99]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think there's any gaurantee for the size of you're stack from following a defined strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said defined strategy. I was referring to a style. If you follow that style, and don't leak chips then you should have a solid stack in these tournies come bubble time.


[ QUOTE ]
A lot of it is the cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you believe that, I think you should be playing limit poker. I would say %10 is the cards. You should be able to build a solid sized stack without getting dealt any high PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok here's what I'm saying. This guy's results after only 8 tournies have been pretty darn good, although not great. He wants them to be great. Unfortunately, a large part of doing VERY well in tournies is luck, which is why you don't see the best players making the final table every tournament, or for that matter even a third of their tournaments.
And there is no style that gaurantees anything...there are NO gaurantees in nlhe tournies period. There are successfull styles, but nothing can be told after only 8 tournies, as in, there may be absolutely no leaks in this guy's game. In essence, he could be the best player in the world.
My advice for original poster:
Post some individual hands, and that way we could try and find out leaks in you're game, if there are any.

[BobbyTheG]

Rocky, I posted something very similar to your post as I'm having the same problem. Bernas replied to me to check out his post by eMarkM.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=890506&page=3&view=co llapsed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1

Thanks, Bernas and thanks to eMarkM.

[rockythecat99]

Wow BobbytheG that was just what I was looking for. Thanks a lot dude. Great post. On a side note who on here are the great tourney players? Thanks.

[Bernas]

Hmmmm....the great ones?
On Two Plus Two?

I would say Paul Phillips and Barry Greenstein. After that I would include Greg and Annie.

They usually don't post in this forum though.

Now if you mean, who are the really good tournament players then that is a whole other ball of wax.

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
There are successfull styles, but nothing can be told after only 8 tournies, as in, there may be absolutely no leaks in this guy's game. In essence, he could be the best player in the world.


[/ QUOTE ]

If in 8 games he has made it to the bubble short stacked every time then there is something wrong with his game. If he had said he busted well before the bubble, had a big stack a couple of times during the bubble and had a shortstack a couple of times before the bubble then I would agree with you.

Always finding yourself shortstacked near the bubble usually indicates a leak in your game. Possibly that he isn't switching gears at the right time, he isn't getting maximum value for his hands earlier in the tournament, he isn't raising when he has position enough or that he is playing to weak tight...etc.

"The best player in the world" definitely wouldn't find himself shortstacked near the bubble consistently.

What is wrong with pointing out that a person has leaks in there game? Everyone has them, and as soon as we realize it, the sooner we can fix them and become better.

[rockythecat99]

Well k let me clarify maybe this is or not shortstacked. But when I get to the final 100 I am usually hovering around the 40-60 places. So say there are 100 left I am like 48th or 59th at the time with about the average stack number. Is that shortstacked or not? Everytime though I have gone out of a tourney its because of a bad call in my part because of lack of patience or having not seen a good hand in a while. For example I had AJo in BB everyone folds to button who raise 3BB. If I call I might as well go all in because it will leave me crippled and he has me well covered. So I go all in thinking he is trying to steal my blind since the table has become extremely tight with everyone giving up their blinds. He calls shows QQ. I am out of there. So yeah thanks everyone for your tips and advice if you have anymore I am all ears.

[drewjustdrew]

You just sound a little shellshocked. Bad results from a decent analysis and play.

When I talk short-stacked, I am pretty much ignoring the average stack size in the tournament and my relative chip position. I am solely referring to stack in relation to the blinds (not of the players in the blind /images/graemlins/wink.gif ). I ASSUME others are doing the same.