Is Isiah Thomas the worst GM in sports?

[hoyaboy1]

[[censored]]

no

[IndieMatty]

Hmm, yeah he is. I don't know about how bad these two trades are. Remember the Knickss are [censored] till 2007 anyway with Houstons contract, so the additions of Rose and Taylor dont matter. Plus an extra 2 first round picks...

Now the only real problem is being a little thin at the point and having no center, but since it seems Zeke wants to tank the season and try and get Bogut, well it makes sense.

Nice to have 5 power forwards though. gag.

[hoyaboy1]

Personally, when my team has too many PFs and too much salary, I trade for more PFs and salary. I also try to give away my only C in the process.

Well, at least Sweetney might be able to start now, but he still won't get big minutes since half the team plays his position.

[IndieMatty]

I totally agree, except he had to do something, salary is not an issue remember, as long as Houston is alive, we will be over the cap. Losing NAZR is sorta stupid. The Rockets trade would have been great by itself.

But I'm thinking, he's got some ideas for the offseason, and somehow we will get Bogut..

Hell, at least its something to read about..and at least for tonight Sweets will start.

[xadrez]

Even when the Knicks attempt to "rebuild", they add salary.
That being said, the 2 first rounders are the key. I dont care if the Knicks suck, just let me watch some younger guys develop. Ariza is going to be awesome.

Im just relieved I dont have to watch a hobbled C-Webb take 15 footers for the next three years.

I can see the Knicks buying out Mo Taylor, I mean whats another 18 million?

[hoyaboy1]

What he has to do is get fired.

[B00T]

He's not even the worst GM who's team plays at Madison Square Garden.

[IndieMatty]

BTW it's two first rounders from San Antonio (the one from Phoenix).

FORGET SALARY It's inconsequential until Houstons contract expires...so for the record the knicks traded...

NAZR, Vin Baker, Moochie, and Jamison Brewer, for Mo Taylor, Makik Rose, and THREE first rounders. When you think about it, we gave up a weak center and three guys on injured reserve.

I like these trades ALOT now.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
What he has to do is get fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry man, see my new post. This is a good trade.

[xadrez]

[ QUOTE ]
Now the only real problem is being a little thin at the point and having no center, but since it seems Zeke wants to tank the season and try and get Bogut, well it makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the deal anyway with this Bogut guy? Havent been following the prospects this year...

[xadrez]

3 First rounders? Thanks for pointing that out. I am liking this more and more as well.

Dont forget, Penny Hardaway and Tim "The Vag" Thomas, the Knicks' two best expiring contracts were preserved for the summer...

[IndieMatty]

Australian White 7 foot Center, with a good post game, and a decent tough. Think darko but he already knows how to play. Coming out of Utah..seems like he will be a solid Rik Smiths type guy. 15-10-3

[IndieMatty]

thats what WFAN is reporting. Yeah I mean, I sorta liked naz but whatever.

They now also have roster spots open, they should really pick up this Jamal Sampson kid who Charlotte released.

[xadrez]

[ QUOTE ]
Australian White 7 foot Center, with a good post game, and a decent tough. Think darko but he already knows how to play. Coming out of Utah..seems like he will be a solid Rik Smiths type guy. 15-10-3

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, Im always skeptical of these guys, but one thing you gotta give credit to Thomas for is he makes great draft picks (Mcgrady, ariza, etc) I trust him in that dept.

[sublime]

Rik Smiths

smits

please dont disrespect quality cracka ballplayas /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hoyaboy1]

3 low first rounders probably won't produce more than one decent bench player, and I doubt the Knicks could move up to get Bogut even with all 4 picks. Low 1st rounders have almost no value.

[xadrez]

Please take a moment and peruse the lower first round picks of the last couple years, and youll see how utterly wrong your statement is...

[hoyaboy1]

Give me the percentage of guys who would make the top 8 rotation on a good team that were drafted, say, in the last 8 picks of the 1st round the in 2000, 2001, 2002 (allowing for development time).

Edit - the answer is about 6 over those 3 years, if I was being really generous - 4 if not.

[IndieMatty]

Off the top of my head im thinking Josh Howard and Tony Parker.

More when I get a chance to look it up.

[hoyaboy1]

Howard is 2003, and the only guy who fits the bill from that year.

[xadrez]

[ QUOTE ]
3 low first rounders probably won't produce more than one decent bench player, and I doubt the Knicks could move up to get Bogut even with all 4 picks. Low 1st rounders have almost no value.

[/ QUOTE ]

In addendum to my last post
I name some late 1st rounders who turned into solid NBA players, all 15th pick and up

1997 - Kelvin Cato, Pollard, Bobby Jackson

1998 - Harpring, Rasho Nesterovic, Pat Garrity, Ricky Davis, Al Harrington, Nazr Mohammed

1999 - Ron Artest, James Posey, Dion Glover, Jeff Foster, Kenny Thomas, Andrei Kirilenko, Francisco Elson (2nd rnd), Manu Ginobili (2nd rnd)

2000 - Hedo Turkoglu, Desmond Mason, Q. Richardson, Jamaal Magloire, Mo Pete, Speedy Claxton, Marko Jaric (2nd rnd), Eddie House (2nd rnd), Ed Najera (2nd rnd), Michael Redd (2nd rnd!!), Brian Cardinal (2nd rnd),

2001 - Zach Randolf, Gerald Wallace, Sam Dalembert, Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas (2nd rnd), Memet Okur (2nd rnd), Earl Watson (2nd rnd), Bobby Simmons (2nd rnd)

2002 - Jiri Welsch, Juan Dixon, Casey Jacobson, Tayshaun Prince, John Salmons, Dan Dikau, Carlos Boozer (2nd rnd), Flip Murray (2nd rnd)

2003 - Dahntay Jones, Brian Cook, Carlos Delfino, Leandrinho Barbosa, Josh Howard, Luke Walton (2nd rnd), Willie Green (2nd rnd), Kyle Korver (2nd rnd)

2004 - Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, JR Smith, Tony Allen, David Harrison, Anderson Varejao (2nd rnd), Trevor Ariza (2nd rnd),

[IndieMatty]

you just saved me a lot of work.

[hoyaboy1]

Was that a joke? The vast majority of that list either wasn't in the last 8 picks of the first round (where the knicks likely will be), wasn't a first rounder at all, or stinks.

At most 1/3 of that list meets what I asked for, and maybe less.

[IndieMatty]

Whats wrong with this statement.

The Knicks traded garbage and a serviceable backup center for two overpaid serviceable powerforwards and three draftpicks in the first round. Since the knicks are out of playoff contention, this is a solid move and allows them to find some jewels or trade up in what is turning into a very deep 2005 draft.

The money is NOT an issue, Maliks contract runs one year after Houstons, and at the very worst they will buy it out if they desperately want to be under the cap that year.

Anyway, they'll probably package, one of them and penny and end up with Ray Allen or something over the summer, and they will be over the cap anyways.

[IndieMatty]

For the record they are saying the other Spurs pick is for 2006.

I still like it.

[xadrez]

I made that list before you posted your challenge...

And they are all 15th-and-after picks, and 2nd rounders.

[hoyaboy1]

15th and after picks are irrelevant, and a few 2nd rounders a year being succesful has nothing to do with my point of 3 low 1st rounders being unlikely to produce more than 1 useful player.

[holeplug]

He could have done this the correct way (Griz, Bulls) from the start and got a bunch of young guys and just waited 2-3 years for them all to develop together. But he messed up and got all these overvalued veterans with huge contracts and screwed the team for a couple of years. Looks like he finally realizes this and is trying to rebuild from the draft which he should have done from the start.

[xadrez]

[ QUOTE ]
Was that a joke? The vast majority of that list either wasn't in the last 8 picks of the first round (where the knicks likely will be), wasn't a first rounder at all, or stinks. At most 1/3 of that list meets what I asked for, and maybe less.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasnt a joke at all. If someone was available in the second round, then what stopped someone from drafting them in the last 8 picks in the 1st. The answer: NOTHING. So why shouldnt they be included on the list.

The knicks right now have mostly garbage, and Ill take ANY draft picks over that garbage any day of the week. The team needs to rebuild, and this is a good first step.

If he can flip ONE of those 1st rounders into a semi productive young player, Ill be happy.

[xadrez]

EDIT: SORRY N/M

[stabn]

Bob Whitsett used to be a GM right? In the days before he was president of the blazers etc? Because if he was ever a GM he gets my vote.

[wayabvpar]

[ QUOTE ]
Bob Whitsett used to be a GM right? In the days before he was president of the blazers etc? Because if he was ever a GM he gets my vote.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was the Sonics GM back in the day. Before Wally Walker.

What a lose/lose deal that was. WW is retarded.

[IndieMatty]

bah..now it makes sense. no 1st round from Houston, in fact they gave up a 2nd.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]

He was the Sonics GM back in the day. Before Wally Walker.

What a lose/lose deal that was. WW is retarded.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on both counts.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Bob Whitsett used to be a GM right? In the days before he was president of the blazers etc? Because if he was ever a GM he gets my vote.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bob Whitsett was probably one of the best GM's in league history.

[PhatTBoll]

I'm pretty sure the Pacers implanted some sort of "idiot chip" in Isiah before he got canned and went to NY. One last eff-you in the great rivalry they used to have.

Oh no wait, he was a dumbass with the Pacers too.

[IndieMatty]

This doesn't deserve it's own thread, but with three roster spots open, and virtually no big men, why don't the knicks or HELL any team pick Jamal Sampson off the waiver wire? The dudes a BEAST!

web page (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jamal_sampson/)


http://www.nba.com/media/bobcats/player_profiles_sampson.jpg


If anybody knows how to get Zeke on the phone, tell him we have 3 roster spots open and no freeakin center.

[xadrez]

[ QUOTE ]
bah..now it makes sense. no 1st round from Houston, in fact they gave up a 2nd.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I found that out this morning, I have to admit I was severly dissapointed. Not sure I want to argue Isiah made the right move anymore.

[IndieMatty]

yeah it doesnt matter, but I agree...the fact we gave up a 2nd rounder is real weak.


Whatever, it doesnt matter, and it does get sweets some more minutes.

They REALLY should pick up this kid and have him work with Herb and Aguirre.