JJ in SB, any other way to play this?

[TripleH68]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Playing from the blinds causes me anxiety. This game is about average on aggression. Is there another way to play this hand? <font color="red">My apologies in advance if this has been covered repeatedly.</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

<font color="blue">Should I consider checking this to represent whiffed overcards? If LP bets into my c-r will I clear out any weak draws?</font>

[Sir Limps Alot]

Your hand is still very vulnerable I would bet out.

Str8 draws and gut shots may call with an overcard and most likely your up against over cards. Bet out.
If river is A K or Q I check and call.

[PotatoStew]

No -- don't check. Keep betting unless something significant changes. You have no reason to think anyone after you will bet, so there's a strong risk of giving a free card. How will you feel when it's checked through and the next card is a A, K, or Q? Not to mention the board is somewhat coordinated, so a straight draw could be out there.

[chief444]

I would never check the turn in this situation.

[ErrantNight]

in short? no.

just adding my voice to the chorus.

[bilbo-san]

I know what you are thinking, because I've been making that mistake a lot lately -- you'd love to have a bettor to your right to protect your hand and face everyone with calling two cold. So a C/R is tempting. Unforunately, you just can't risk it. This is exactly the kind of board that you are almost assuredly ahead on, and you absolutely CANNOT give anyone a free card. You just have to bet out. If someone to your immediate left raises, fine. If they all just call you to the river and someone hits a three- or five- outer, well, that's poker.

After seeing hands like this get checked through too often, I think I've come to accept that it's pretty much impossible to protect hands in this sense when you have no position (like in the SB or UTG when the blinds folded). You can't risk the C/R unless you know there's a LAG who will bet for you, and even then, if he's not to your right, you're better off betting into him. Giving someone a free card when they would fold to a turn bet is a huge mistake in a pot like this.

But that's why LP tables are nice -- they will often just call you to the river, and will rarely raise you, even when they should, so you take more of their money when you're ahead, and lose less when you're behind.

[TripleH68]

Okay so that is a pretty solid "don't even think about it" when it comes to the idea of checking the turn. What about raising preflop? Is it a clear cut raise every time?

<font color="blue">Disclaimer: I am not being a smart a$$. I just play so tightly from the blinds normally that I don't know what to do when I have a hand there.</font><font color="red"> Flame away if you must...</font>

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
What about raising preflop? Is it a clear cut raise every time?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's amazing how many killer threads (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=301785&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1) there are in the archives.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about raising preflop? Is it a clear cut raise every time?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's amazing how many killer threads (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=301785&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1) there are in the archives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for doing the work for me wuwei. I think I am going to visit the stacks for awhile...

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about raising preflop? Is it a clear cut raise every time?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's amazing how many killer threads (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=301785&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1) there are in the archives.

[/ QUOTE ]

The gist of which all are: JJ is a monster. Not raising it is a bigger mistake than calling a raise with 72o on the button.

Always raise fishhooks, unless you are trying to be tricky in a game full of 2+2ers. And why the hell would you play that game??

[wuwei]

One point about check raising - as nice as it would be to c/r here both for value and protection, you have no idea where the bet is coming from. A c/r without any idea who will bet is a dangerous and potentially very costly move when it checks through.