Go for the checkraise?

[Coachpoker]

This hand comes from one of my students. I'm interested to see how many other players would lean towards trying to checkraise in this situation.

Best,
coachpoker.com

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.

River: (6.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

[brettbrettr]

Going for the c/r after leading the flop is really silly. And by silly I mean bad. By bad awful.

[Rico Suave]

Coach:

With 2 hearts and 2 clubs, there is no way I would check the turn and risk the free card. Not a good spot for it, imo.

Also, he should bet the river.

--Rico

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand comes from one of my students. I'm interested to see how many other players would lean towards trying to checkraise in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it... you are a poker coach. $100/hour (btw your site takes forever to open...). You post no player reads. You ask a question about going for a c/r, but where? flop? turn? river? Your student was the pfr and nobody else showed any aggresion. And you still ask this question on a forum that already has too many posts as it is?

Anyway... c/r is terrible anywhere here. Bet the turn... bet the river... send me $20 for the consult.

[jluker7]

OMG, I thought I posted terrible post.

It should be more like, why isn't your student betting turn, and then after giving the freecard, why isn't he raising this river?

I thought check raise was for value, and protecting hands, and potentialy getting a freecard.


You suck. Worse than me.

*edit*
I was going to come back and make my post a little less harsh, until I saw your site..

Im crying.

[Sir Limps Alot]

Check raise here is not smart for two reasons.

Flush draw- your opponents are probably on a flush draw hence make them pay and they will.

2- Straight draw rare but possible at this level.

To give them a free card here is wrong. They did not raise your original bet so continue to push this pot. K J of clubs looks pretty good here.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand comes from one of my students. I'm interested to see how many other players would lean towards trying to checkraise in this situation.

Best,
coachpoker.com

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? Are you serious? And you are asking a question about this hand? Don't get fancy. Bet. Relentlessly. For the love of everything that is good in this world, you can not let that turn get checked through!

[Coachpoker]

Thanks for the replies, you all have settled the dispute. Sorry to clog the waves but what is obvious to pros, isn't always so obvious to newbies.

d.

[jluker7]

haha.

[Thigh]

I'm no genius at this game, but you would get lambasted even on the micro board for this move.

[ErrantNight]

[ QUOTE ]
Going for the c/r after leading the flop is really silly. And by silly I mean bad. By bad awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ErrantNight]

Welcome to Coachpoker.com—a website devoted to delivering personalized poker coaching. Are you a self-taught player? Have your read some of the popular literature on the game?

Are you someone who plays semi-regularly online? If you answered yes to any of these questions, you are a likely candidate to benefit from personalize poker instruction.



WTF? How do newbies enter into this?

And if your intention was to coach lurking newbies on THIS website... go the hell away. They're in micro, and even THEY are better than this.

[jluker7]

Dude errant, let him keep teaching people! .. I hope i run into tons of coach poker people.

[Coachpoker]

Obviously issues here...

Let me give you help for free. Why would you fold here? Micro isn't small enough for you.

Jluker7 Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1692919&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=)

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously issues here...

Let me give you help for free. Why would you fold here? Micro isn't small enough for you.

Jluker7 Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1692919&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=)

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG... you are the pokergod... there's no doubt now.

[jluker7]

LOL! I love you? I think my post was a bit more hard to understand than, this check raise one.


*edit*

like a thought process maybe..

[Trix]

Just bet the turn, if it gets checked the the last guy, then you dont love the CR anyway as you may fold the first guy who probably is drawing thin, but may pay off or give action if he hits a random 2 pair.

Most important though, party 2/4 is too passive for this, they will check around too often, even with an Ace.

Bet the river !!?!?!?! , you missed you check-raise..With a read, you MAY try for a second one, but just bet it here.

I like check-calling less than check-raising on the river.

[Sir Limps Alot]

Errant Night. Relax this is simple to you and to most posters here but even coach's need help and dont need to be barraged with insult.
I agree this is very obvious but was not obvious to the poster. Answer the question and move on, no need to insult.

[Coachpoker]

Thank you Sir Limps Alot. I used to post a lot on this forum in 98-99 and it was never like this. What gives? It's an easy question sure - but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable to some. Is this still public or is it now the domain of a few ego-maniacs who can't see anything beyond their own play?

[27offsooot]

I'll try a less harsh response. The reason that you are receiving so much criticism is b/c 99% of posters in the small stakes forum know that a c/r here is wrong. Not only is this hand obvious, but it also appears that your post is a plug for your web site. If you really are a good poker player, you should have no problem explaining to your student why a c/r is wrong. There is already too much clutter on this board about how to best play quads/ repetitive preflop debates/ etc. as it is and this thread is just taking away room from more worthwhile threads.

[ErrantNight]

I think you're both way off.

It's fine if you're coaching people. That's cool. But this hand offers NOTHING to the poker community, and I mean NOTHING. That you posted it in SS means you're not familiar with the territory. That you posted it without reads, or even a specific as to when you were "going" for the check raise, means you didn't put any time or thought into the post itself. That you posted it without any questions of your own, but merely to "educate" other people would be alright... if this were a compelling or commonly misunderstood issue. It isn't.

I suppose I flipped out because it was tied to an advertisement for your website... which specifically acknowledges it's for people with experience who have already started working on their games. And this question is for people that can't figure out which of the 60% of the hands they're playing they can possibly get rid of... what with playing any face, any ace, and any two suited.

[jluker7]

your right... i like your post.. it was of great value to me.

[Coachpoker]

Thank you for explaining. As I understand it, I do not know this territory. From what you are saying, the players in this forum are not your typical small stakes players - but much better - maybe struggling at the professional level. This hand or hands like these are not challenging to this group.

Got it.

[ErrantNight]

Rock on.

If you're good enough to be coaching people... I look forward to some better posts in the future.

Best of...

[Bob T.]

I would just keep betting. I don't see any reason to vary from the simple line here.

If the flop came Qxx, and the turn was an Ace, then the checkraise makes a little bit more sense.

[chief444]

There are 3 mistakes in this hand, two of which aren't on the turn.

[27offsooot]

Not betting the river and... ?

[ErrantNight]

I assume he means not raising it when someone else DOES bet it for you.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume he means not raising it when someone else DOES bet it for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
I do. After reading through the rest I see Trix already pointed that out though.

[27offsooot]

k, was thinking you meant two other streets.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
but what is obvious to pros, isn't always so obvious to newbies.


[/ QUOTE ]

that is a rediculous thing to say as that statement garnishes your credibility as a poker coach.

[ErrantNight]

you mean "ridiculous" and "tarnishes"

[Fat Nicky]

thanks english teacher.

[ErrantNight]

well i wouldn't have bothered with rediculous/ridiculous...
except that "garnishes" is pretty much the opposite of what you intended your comment to imply.

[Fat Nicky]

no problem, i can't spell nor type

[jluker7]

since i get free advice, do i open limp with QTs in MP1 or do i raise or fold?

average table ..

[ErrantNight]

both are overrated anyway... just helping the cause :-)

[ErrantNight]

you frop a frush. moron.

[jluker7]

damn where do i get that flop flush hack? program/exploit

[chief444]

No, preflop and flop are obviously fine. Actually this is a very uninteresting and simple hand which sort of leads me to believe that coachpoker is pushing the website more than anything. Asking about this hand is a pretty poor advertisement though if that's the case.

[easypete]

Please... for all that is good in the universe... let this die