New Player

[baggins]

So, the other day i was planning on heading down to the cardroom when i ran into a friend. he had played poker in our home games before, but was a horrible player at best, having no rationale regarding his betting. which is fine. and i know he's got a decent job, and can afford to lose a buy-in at a LL table. i invited him down with me. (i usually extend the offer to friends knowing that they will pretty much never take me up on it. and i prefer to go play by myself. but i also knew he'd enjoy it, and i hadn't seen him in a while.) we ended up going down toegether in my car. since it was rush-hour, and we had a good 1.5 hour drive, i decided i'd try to prep him as much as possible so he didn't lose his whole buy-in in like 6 hands and then beg me to leave. he asked me about other games besides poker, and i told him the only one i'd ever played was roulette, and that it was a losing bet, but can be fun.

then i went on to prep him for hold-em preflop play. basically i told him to play any pairs, and any suited connectors. and big cards. but throw everything else away. and i said to raise with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and AK (suited and not). pretty standard play, simplest way to explain it in a way that he's not going to be playing every hand, and has a good chance to win with his cards. also, simpler than trying to explain to throw away AQ when there's an early position raise, or to toss deuce-deuce when its 3 bets cold to you. gave him a cliff's notes of basic preflop play. and told him to just be careful after the flop because strong hands may not be so strong depending on what's on the board.

we get to the cardroom and he decides that he'd rather play the 1-5 stud game than play the 5-10 holdem game. (i didn't bother to explain what this meant in terms of rake, and how the apparent size difference in the structures wasn't as big as it seemed.) i just sat with him, as he didn't want to sit at the table alone. so i told him to play 9's or higher pairs, and 3straight and 3flush hands. we played for a while, and i saw him go to the river 1 time, and lose to a rivered straight to beat his 2pair in the first 4. (i was actually surprised at how tight he was playing.) i won a few major pots (4 of the 5 showdowns i saw i won. which was 4 of like 7 hands i saw past 3rd street.) then i moved to the 5-10 holdem table because i hate stud, especially 1-5. i couldn't catch a hand (except where i flopped a set, turned a boat, and was bet into. it was heads-up, and the guy was loose so far, so i raised him. he folded!!! first time i have ever seen anyone bet and then fold to a raise in LL holdem besides myself!!).i lost my buy-in, and my buddy had lost his as well. i asked him if he won a hand, and he said no. he couldn't get any cards, apparently. didn't even see another showdown the whole time.

so we went downstairs and played roulette for a while. he proceeded to go on a nice winning streak, not realizing the dollar value of the chips in front of him. he paid me back what he owed me, i went up a bit to cover some of my poker loss, and he ended up losing back some of his winnings but cashing out $40 ahead for the whole day. needless to say he fell in love with roulette.

how do i get him to come play poker again? how do i help him learn proper stud strategy for such a small stakes losing game (you can't beat that rake. $5 + jackpot drop)? what simple starting hand requirements would you give a guy like that, and then what pointers for middle game and endgame strategy would you give a guy like that so that he could actually feel what it is like to win a hand of poker? im sure he would have had a blast and been hooked if he'd have actually won a hand.

help me, because i know this guy would have fun, and be a good guy to have around the casino with me. basically i want him to give it another shot, but i don't know if he will. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Ray Zee]

first find out his roulette system as that has lots of promise. then you two can play that together. you guys are plain nuts. stay away from that crap.

if he must play stud with that rake have him play extemely tight, and not call any third street raises from a card higher than his pair. this way he can learn and maybe hold his own. also loan him the stud book and he will get good real fast.

[baggins]

Ray,

i admit that roulette is crazy. but its fun. and i never drop more than $20 on it. he knows that its no good either, at least i explained it to him several times. basically, he figured it out when he asked me 'so if i put a chip on every number, what happens?' i said 'you'll lose 2 chips'. then he figured that out. but he still enjoyed it, and thats worth something.

i am a bit ashamed to admit that i don't own the stud book. i didn't really start reading 2+2 books until after i decided i enjoyed hold-em much better. i have Caro's stud book. but its not that great. besides, he'll never read a book on poker. he rarely reads anything. i think the last thing he read was Harry Potter (which is kick-ass, don't get me wrong).

also, there's not much raising going on 3rd street at the $1-$5 stud table. but, your advice is a good place to start. i think if i have a couple more conversations with him, he might get the hang of it. then again, when he watched me play holdem, he said 'this looks a lot easier. you don't have to keep track of all those extra cards. and you only get 2 to start.' i think i'll make a holdem player of him yet.

In my experience having played this structure, it's really not a rewarding game for a skilled player. Huge rake is a killer plus high ante favors loose callers. Much better to move down to $1-3 no ante if available or up to $5-10 with .50 ante and $2 bring in. If neither available, better to play $3-6 he or even $5-10 he.

[GrannyMae]

stay away from that crap.



<font color="purple">ohhh, that's pure garbage ray.. roulette is the easiest game in the house, everyone knows that. just play all the numbers except one of them, and you can't lose! i guarantee it </font color>

[baggins]

well, unfortunately, the cardroom where i play has a 1-5 stud, 2-10 stud, and the lowest limit HE is 4-8 on weekdays and 5-10 on weekends. i think he'll play 5-10, but he'll have to get more comfortable with it first. at least he plays weak TIGHT instead of weakLOOSE. last longer if nothing else.

[scalf]

doesn't the harrah's 1-5 stud have a 50 cent ante along with one dollar force bring-in, and a 10% rake to 5 dollars, which in my opinion is as closr to an unbeatable game as there is????

hey were yo in harrahs sun nit/mon am (labour day)??

gl

by the way seven card stud fap is the best poker book ever written...the green book..buy it..read it, study it, dream it, live it ,, be it...do it...jmho..gl /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

[M2d]

"also loan him the stud book and he will get good real fast."
you should have said: "Also, tell him about the stud book and have him buy one of his own". I know you don't need the money, Ray, but I'm sure David could use it.

[baggins]

i wasn't there on labor day. at least i don't think i was.

and yes, the 1-5 stud game is horrible. and the rake is damn near impossible to beat, unless you can really read those players (which is possible). but, my friend doesn't understand all that. he just wanted to play the lowest limit in the room, whatever that might be. (i was actually a bit miffed that the floor suggested the 1-5 seat. i mean, they had 2 5-10 seats open, and that is what we originally requested when we walked in. but my buddy balked for a second, and then she suggested it. this meant i had to play stud too. i hate stud.

which brings me to your second comment about Zee's book.

no i don't have it. i don't think i intend to buy it anytime soon. why? because the only stud games in the room i play are 1-5 and 2-10. id much rather play holdem. back when i used to play stud because it was the lowest limit in the room, i didn't read books. so i never bought it then either. after i decided hold-em was better i started buying and reading and studying seriously.