94s in posted CO - Play along with me. [Archive]

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 09:51 AM

I only have reads on BB here. I had just sat down, but have seen him before. He's a TP-P.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero ????

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:00 AM

Bets.

Who is that in your avatar? Is it CZJ?

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bets.

Who is that in your avatar? Is it CZJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bjork, she's dreamy.

edit: Why do you say bet?

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bjork, she's dreamy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, wow, especially in that photo. I always liked the cover of the Debut album.

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edit: Why do you say bet?

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You have middle pair and no one else has shown interest in the hand yet. You'll have position the rest of the hand.

brettbrettr

02-24-2005, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bets.

Who is that in your avatar? Is it CZJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bjork, she's dreamy.

edit: Why do you say bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have position, a pair, and the flop has been checked to you.

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:09 AM

No one's concerned with my kicker? Why am I betting exactly?

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]

No ones concerned with my kicker? Why am I betting exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not concerned on the flop. You're betting because you might have the best hand. Charge people to outdraw you, if you are ahead.

brettbrettr

02-24-2005, 10:10 AM

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No ones concerned with my kicker? Why am I betting exactly?

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B/c they can't fold if you don't. As for your kicker, you're putting someone on a better 9? How?

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
B/c they can't fold if you don't. As for your kicker, you're putting someone on a better 9? How?

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I wasn't putting anyone on a better 9, I just looked at it from a valuebet perspective, and the likely hands to check/call on this ragged board are a weak jack and any 9.

If I check through, my plan is to fold to a turn bet, and bet if checked to me again. Too weak tight?

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No ones concerned with my kicker? Why am I betting exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not concerned on the flop. You're betting because you might have the best hand. Charge people to outdraw you, if you are ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get 2 callers and it's checked to you again on a blank turn (2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif), do you bet again?

brettbrettr

02-24-2005, 10:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I check through, my plan is to fold to a turn bet, and bet if checked to me again. Too weak tight?

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I'd bet the flop. In the above scenario, it really depends on the turn card.

ZenMusician

02-24-2005, 10:16 AM

If you had K9, you would bet to see where you are at, maybe afraid of a Jack, or at these limits people LOVE J9 and JT etc. This hand demands a bet even more. If you get raised, you might be safe to fold here, otherwise you have to ask why they are staying in the hand, the only draws are QT or T8...find out if your second button is good and you cannot do this checking.

-ZEN

Dopey

02-24-2005, 10:17 AM

Bet. Why you ask?

1. You have middle pair
2. There is no action to lead you to believe your not ahead
3. You have position
4. You need to protect your pathetic hand if your are ahead because it is certainly vunerable.

If you are too afraid to bet here and check you have to be prepaired to fold if you don't improve. But by checking your showing weakness that may lead to any number of bluff bets on the turn.

A bet will do many things:

1. It may win the pot now
2. It will probably thin the field letting you know where you stand.
3. It will give you a chance at a free card on the turn if you want it.

A bet is obvious, tougher decisions start to come into play if you are raised.

Dopey /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you get 2 callers and it's checked to you again on a blank turn (2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif), do you bet again?

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Yes. I'd consider taking a free showdown though, unless I improve.

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:21 AM

Thanks guys, I was torn between check and bet on this flop, I opted to check. I figured if I waited until the turn to bet, I could be much more certain I was ahead. This situation comes up frequently, I'm always lost when it does.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero ???

Edit: haha, I didn't even realized the 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif was the actual turn card. I just picked a blank for that other post.

sfer

02-24-2005, 10:21 AM

You bet and continue to bet. Assume you have the best hand unless someone does something to suggest otherwise.

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:22 AM

Bets.

sfer

02-24-2005, 10:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I figured if I waited until the turn to bet, I could be much more certain I was ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the difference between being in the SB and being on the button on this hand.

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You bet and continue to bet. Assume you have the best hand unless someone does something to suggest otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say I bet the flop and I got two callers to the river, take the free showdown or bet again?

I'm assuming no very scary cards fall.

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say I bet the flop and I got two callers to the river, take the free showdown or bet again?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends so much on the river card.

brettbrettr

02-24-2005, 10:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You bet and continue to bet. Assume you have the best hand unless someone does something to suggest otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say I bet the flop and I got two callers to the river, take the free showdown or bet again?

I'm assuming no very scary cards fall.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the river is a 9 or a 4 I think this is an easy bet. (Seriously, what's the river card?)

Dopey

02-24-2005, 10:27 AM

So you say "if I waited until the turn to bet, I could be much more certain I was ahead."

While we said bet the flop, if you don't bet the flop then yes you are correct that you should now bet the turn.

In most cases if you bet the flop you would again bet the turn (This does depend on what happened after your flop bet)

Dopey /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

chief444

02-24-2005, 10:28 AM

You're 0/1 so far with a turn decision that's about as interesting as a bottle of milk. Bet maybe?

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:30 AM

this turn descision isn't hard at all, I think everyone agrees I should bet, and I did:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero ???.

chief444

02-24-2005, 10:34 AM

That's a good river card for you. Unless your opponents are super passive I'm fairly sure you have a winner. Bet.

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:34 AM

Value bets. Almost surely your hand is good. No draws were completed. The magical A didn't fall. Pocket 7s will call you here. A fish with a 2 or 5 might call you, or look you up with A high. You can safely fold to a raise.

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:41 AM

yea, Thanks guys. I wasn't sure about the flop and was pretty sure I should have bet the river. I checked through and MHWG.

UTG had T/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, MP had Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

brettbrettr

02-24-2005, 10:41 AM

Bet. Easy bet.

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG had T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, MP had Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, these are a few of the only hands that make sense (which is why I'd check behind if a 7 or K falls; perhaps this is weak and a bet/fold would be better), plus low pocket pairs that missed the set, and hands like A2 or A5 and from some fish, Ax. Even though no one was calling you here, you missed a bet on the river.

Let's think about this hand a little more now as middle pair hands are fascinating. What do you do if MP bets the flop? Or UTG bets and MP calls? Or what if MP check/raises the flop, for value on his draw?

Edit: Bjork is beautiful.

chief444

02-24-2005, 10:51 AM

I would definitely bet if a 7 fell. The K probably makes it closer.

JoshuaD

02-24-2005, 10:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Let's think about this hand a little more now as middle pair hands are fascinating. What do you do if MP bets the flop? Or UTG bets and MP calls?

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I'm folding to any bet here, and I'm calling the C/R on the flop, folding the turn UI. Even if I'm ahead now, the only likely C/R hand I'm ahead of, the draw, has got 14 outs to beat me. If I'm behind, I'm (probably) drawing to 5 outs. I can't imagine a calldown being longterm +EV unless I was very certain he was on a draw.

jason_t

02-24-2005, 10:53 AM

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I would definitely bet if a 7 fell. The K probably makes it closer.

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I think you're right. T8 isn't that common of a limping hand.

jason_t

02-24-2005, 11:08 AM

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I'm folding to any bet here

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I think this is fine.

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and I'm calling the C/R on the flop, folding the turn UI. Even if I'm ahead now, the only likely C/R hand I'm ahead of, the draw, has got 14 outs to beat me. If I'm behind, I'm (probably) drawing to 5 outs. I can't imagine a calldown being longterm +EV unless I was very certain he was on a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, a check/raise situation is tough. Some donks (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=178 8785&Forum=,,,f3,,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&M ain=1788785&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=21723&d aterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=w&olderval=&oldert ype=&bodyprev=#Post1788785) pull incredibly silly moves with draws.