My friends baptism

[dr. klopek]

I have known my friend since we were thirteen. He came to my grade school and we started making mischief. We have been good friends for about ten years now.

We've always sort of been the same "philosophically," not religious (despite going to catholic schools), cool with drinking and drugs (not, you know, "drugs"), down with pre-marital sex. Anti racism, homophobia, evil, etc.

I talked to him a couple weeks ago after not seeing him for a while, and he mentioned that he was going to a bible study. He had mentioned to me before that he had started hanging out with some kids from school that were all churchy n s[/i]hit, and they had been inviting him to a bible study. I didn't really think much of it.

So, he called me up on Friday night and asked me what I was doing on Sunday, and if I would come to his baptism. I told him I would. (I'm "skeptical" at best about religions.) I support it if he thinks it can make him better and happier, however, so I was happy to go. I found out at the (to my mind, cultish) baptism that no one there had known him for more than three weeks.

I was talking to him today about it, and he was telling me that the church that he has become a part of is christians who believe that the bible is one hundred percent divinely inspired. I asked him if the people at his church would say that I'm going to hell. He told me yes. I asked him if he would vote against allowing gay marriage. He told me yes. They believe everything that the bible says (though I don't know if they're literalists like creationists or whatever, if they are, it's worse than I thought).

This group of people embodies one of the things that I hate the worst about religion.

Is my friend my ideological enemy?

[college_boy]

No Christian that I am aware of believes everything the Bible says. Or better said, I don't think any argue that everything in the Bible is meant for them. Many of my friends are Christians so I just try to stay away from any controversial topics because one of us usually ends up getting mad. Just continue to be his friend and if you believe his intentions are good accept him regardless of your differences. Some people just aren't as smart....seriously

[dr. klopek]

He thinks I am going to hell, that I am a bad person.

[daryn]

oh well, a lot of people think a lot of things about me.

[Caruso329]

A true Christian will try to save you and get you to see the error of your ways. Expect your friend to start talking to you about Jesus, wanting you to come to church with him, etc. If you want to stay friends, I advise telling him to shut the [censored] up about his religion while you're together. Tell him that you'll deal with God when you feel like it and you don't want encouragement. As a friend he should respect this decision.

[college_boy]

[ QUOTE ]
He thinks I am going to hell, that I am a bad person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that sucks. But he also thinks he's naturally a bad person who just got "lucky" and doesn't deserve it either. However much being friends with somebody that thinks you're going to hell sucks; you'll have to weigh it against not being his friend at all. Which is worse?

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
He thinks I am going to hell, that I am a bad person.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think i could be friends with somebody that thought this about me.

on a side note, it is pretty easy to flip things around on born again christians. most that i have met (including close family members) are in no way "walking in Jesus' footseps," helping people, etc..In fact, I can honestly say some of the most hateful people I have met were born again christians. but, i always hoped this was just coincidence.

crsig

[[censored]]

I think if you want to be friends with him you will find a way to deal and if you don't than you will make a big deal about this.

As it stands now you are questioning your friendship not on what he has done to you or said but on how you feel about his new found beliefs.

I am not sure he is the one who is the problem.

[dr. klopek]

[ QUOTE ]
A true Christian will try to save you and get you to see the error of your ways. Expect your friend to start talking to you about Jesus, wanting you to come to church with him, etc. If you want to stay friends, I advise telling him to shut the [censored] up about his religion while you're together. Tell him that you'll deal with God when you feel like it and you don't want encouragement. As a friend he should respect this decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

He, knowing the way I feel about this, has told me that he will not try to convert me. It's respectful, I guess, but it's sort of worse, in a way.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]


I don't think i could be friends with somebody that thought this about me.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. But watch out. Many born again Christians will turn this around, saying, "Wouldn't a true friend try to help their friend out? Would a true friend let their friend go to Hell?"

It can make for quite a tense and awkward situation.

I've had plenty of them.

[swede123]

Did he join The Church of Christ? Not Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints (AKA Mormons), just Church of Christ?

Swede

[daveymck]

The trouble with the bible is that people intepret what is in effect a translation of a translation and in some cases of a transalation, the bible is full of contradictions and you can pull bits out to support just about any belief that you want.

I would be worried that he is being taken into a cult, if he wants to be a christian why cant he also go along to a more standard church and see if that gives him what he needs.

If he and others want to follow religion then obviously thats their choice its cool you go to support him in that, but this seems more sinister purely from your posting.

[spamuell]

I have religious friends who undoubtedly think I'm a bad person and all that stuff.

It's difficult at times and we skirt around sensitive topics, I wouldn't make a conscious decision to stop being friends with them, we still share a lot of history and can have fun together.

[thatpfunk]

If he was a close enough friend then you can tell him hes brain washed and make fun of him.

If you can't then I wouldn't be too concerned about it because you're not that close and will evetually grow apart.

(this isnt suppsoed to sound condescending or anything, just honest from my experiences)

[nicky g]

I have a very good long-standing friend who has always been very religious, to the point that he plans on becoming a minister eventually (he works with a church youth group now). A lot of the things I do make me a bad person from the point of his religious views. Some of his beliefs make him a dick from my point of view. Nevertheless we still get on really well, and he's on the whole one of the best and nicest people I know. We almost never talk about religion these days, although we used to. If you and your friend can put such things in the background, you'll be fine. If he starts letting his beliefs affect who he can be friends with, or if you find his "judgement" of you intolerable, you won't.

[Shajen]

I'm a Christian. I don't go to church. I don't tithe. I don't try to convert people to my beliefs.

If I were you, I'd try to figure out exactly what changed in his life to make this dramatic 360.

Maybe it was there all along and you just didn't see it.

Either way, the best thing for you I think is to explain to him how you feel and basically set some ground rules for your friendship.

No conversion attempts on fridays, stuff like that /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SCfuji]

i feel that he may have rushed into the conversion into Christianity, but everybody is different. it took me awhile to get comfortable enough to give my life to Jesus. it may seem annoying, but he will want you to join him either at his Church or another. before that happens, however, do try and get him to understand where you stand about his choice and yours and the differences between the two. otherwise you will just despise each other - you for being so unappreciative of his efforts to save you and him for being a pestering Jesus freak.

Amen
fuji

[mmbt0ne]

Considering you're going around telling complete strangers that your friend is in a "cultish" group, you sure do seem to be worried about what he thinks about you.

[2planka]

your friend, sir, is http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v713/wormtowne/cuckoo.jpg

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Is my friend my ideological enemy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes, man. I have to say yes.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I was talking to him today about it, and he was telling me that the church that he has become a part of is christians who believe that the bible is one hundred percent divinely inspired. I asked him if the people at his church would say that I'm going to hell. He told me yes. I asked him if he would vote against allowing gay marriage. He told me yes. They believe everything that the bible says

[/ QUOTE ]

These beliefs aren't typical of Christians, but they are typical oc Christians in the south. They don't consider that the Bible has benn translated from its original language. They also beleive that the stories that start with the ancient equivelant of "once upon a time" are true becasue they are in the Bible. They also believe it is ok to force their views on others through the poitical process.

RR

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
He, knowing the way I feel about this, has told me that he will not try to convert me. It's respectful, I guess, but it's sort of worse, in a way.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm confused. Do you want him to talk to you about it or not? In fact, I guess that's a good question to ask yourself. What do you expect out of this friendship now? He's changed (and will continue to change), so he won't be looking for the same thing either. If you still want to get drunk, smoke weed, and chase women (or whatever) with him, then forget it. It's unfair of you to encourage him to do any of those.

Do you want to have non-accusatory, intellegent conversation with him about why he's changing, or do you not? Remember, that goes both ways. If you don't want to hear about why he became a Christian, then you don't get to tell him why you'll never be one.

If you think it's going to be too much work to keep a good friendship with someone this different, then give it up. That's not necessarily a bad thing. We've all abandoned friendships as we've grown up - people's lives go down different paths. There's no shame in recognizing when your path diverges from a friend's.

That said, the friend I remain closest to today is philospohically very different from me. He's a Jehova's Witness, and I am not. Needless to say he doesn't approve of my profession (poker) and I think he's nuts for several of things he believes. But we're great friends anyway.

It all boils down to what you expect/ want from the friendship.

[jimdmcevoy]

For the record, there are christians out there that believe every word of the bible is true, and they are not just in America, I know many in Australia.

My advice is expect your friend to change man, depending on your lifestyle you may have very little in common now. Not to mention he will be trying to save you from going to hell if you are his friend, this is obvious.

[dr. klopek]

[ QUOTE ]
If he and others want to follow religion then obviously thats their choice its cool you go to support him in that, but this seems more sinister purely from your posting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this seems to have been overlooked, I have absolutely no intention of not being this guy's friend. He has been one of my closest friends for a long time and my support of his decision is in no way dubious.

That said, him telling me that he won't try to convert me is somewhat bothersome to me, is a little lip-service too much to ask?? He seems accepting of the fact that I'm going to hell. This brings me to the conclusion that he doesn't believe one of these two things- I am going to hell, or, christ is the only way not to. If he believed both of these things, he would try to convert me.

I do NOT have a problem with my friend becoming a christian. I have a problem with christianity.

My main problem with these people is that they honestly believe that all followers of other religions are damned. They say, "the bible says that few will be saved." I could lead a perfectly selfless life, and without a drop of church water on my forehead, will suffer eternal damnation. Doesn't this seem like god is creating people for the sole purpose of damnation? I don't know, it's the attitude that god has chosen them and only them because they have based their faith on different scriptural technicalities than the countless hordes of other spin-off religions that gets to me.

Also, I think that your spirituality shoud be a vehicle for what defines you, not what defines you. I don't want him to be one of these people who says a prayer to thank god for what a nice prayer service they had, you know?

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

It is clear to me that you and several others here greatly misunderstand Christianity and have the wrong impression of what Christians are, how they think, their intelligence, and their motives.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
It is clear to me that you and several others here greatly misunderstand Christianity and have the wrong impression of what Christians are, how they think, their intelligence, and their motives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Negative captain, we both went to catholic schools and if you have read the bible then you will know this: the closer you get to a literal interpretation, the more you think other religions are going to hell.

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

[dr. klopek]

[ QUOTE ]
It is clear to me that you and several others here greatly misunderstand Christianity and have the wrong impression of what Christians are, how they think, their intelligence, and their motives.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you understand what my beef is. I would like to better understand christianity, so, if you can tell me something I don't know, please do (not a challenge or anything, I was raised catholic, so I doubt very much of it will go over my head).

I never made any presumptions about the intentions of christians, nor did I make any assertions about their collective intelligence.

[Prof. Chaos]

I have little or no respect for born again Christians.

[Mayhap]

You acquiesced to your old friend's request because you have a warm place in your heart for him. To my mind, your friend has become spiritually entrapped. You must maintain that heartfelt warmth for him and NOT consider him an ideological enemy. By maintaining this stance you offer him escape from entrapment. By considering him an ideological enemy, you seal the door on his entrapment. This (maintaining openness), ironically, is the Christian thing to do.
/M

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
I could lead a perfectly selfless life, and without a drop of church water on my forehead, will suffer eternal damnation.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Christians don't believe that any of us could lead perfectly selfless lives on our own; we're too rotten to lead truly good lives. The Christian message is that we all need help to do that.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

[/ QUOTE ]

Great quote.

Am I the only one who read this thread, wishing El Diablo had weighed in, just for comedy's sake?

[dr. klopek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could lead a perfectly selfless life, and without a drop of church water on my forehead, will suffer eternal damnation.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Christians don't believe that any of us could lead perfectly selfless lives on our own; we're too rotten to lead truly good lives. The Christian message is that we all need help to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, but what I'm saying is that I could follow christ's example as closely as any christian is capable of, but if I don't get baptised, I go to hell.