Sooted.

[TheJackal]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t30370)
UTG+1 (t19996)
MP1 (t67115)
MP2 (t3995)
MP3 (t9125)
CO (t32623)
Button (t19939)
SB (t21240)
BB (t12325)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2000</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t2000, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>.

Flop: (t4400) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t5000</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t65065</font>, Hero calls t23320 (All-In).

Turn: (t97785) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t97785) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t97785

What would you do, fold or call? I think my mistake was the fact that I pot-stuck myself by betting 5k on the flop. I like the berating I got after the hand, "What an idiot, all-in on a draw, yada yada yada". These are the same people who think that Hellmuth is the greatest player alive although he willingly throws away 4:1 edges and thinks its the right play.

[Shilly]

Not pretty. Is stealing with T9s UTG really a good idea? It could have been an extremely tight table, but I think this is a very poor spot to try to steal.

Leading out on the flop isn't a bad idea, but you're right, you did bet too much. A 2/3 pot bet would have been good enough if he was going to fold, and doesn't give you bad odds for your draw if called. The overbet is a bit much.

You can't call this push. You're in extremely good shape in chips--why gamble right now? Plus, your outs aren't necessarily all clean (what if he has AQs, or something similar?). Fold after cutting your losses here.

[broomcorn12]

First of all, I disagree with last poster on this point. With 50bbs in front of you, I love the raise outta first with 910 suited. You put in 3BBs, nothing to you at this point, so you are not pot commited on the flop. At this stage of the tourney, you are not stealing, simply tryin to get chips by playin out a pot.

However, where i dont like the move is by betting the flop. An ace hits the board in a raised pot, and you dont have an ace. To me, the odds of him having an ace in this spot are quite high. So a bet of 5k on the flop will accomplish more harm than good, most of the time. The flop is bittersweet in the sense that you have a great draw. Bitter, because an ace hit, meaning its not gonna be cheap to see it.

Secondly, your draw is big, but not huge. You have about 13 outs, making you about a toss. Now, after u put in a steal bet of 5k, and he puts you AI, you decide to call AI on a little less than a toss with still almost 40BBS left?????? I understand your pot odds are good, but to me, taking a toss with 40BBs left is criminal. You have more than enought time to find a better than 50 50 spot. If your a good enough player ull hate to call AI on a draw with still 40BBs in your stack. In this case, Ill go with stack size vs pot odds any day. Check the flop, if he bets half the pot, you can call and get a look at the turn. If you dont improve, throw em in and wait.

[daveymck]

Yes the guy could have an Ace but he could have a wide range of hands high PP's or whatever, a continuation bet i think is pretty standard here but I would have bet 2,500 an overbet screams I dont want to be called. If he comes over the top then I fold, if he calls we still have our draws to hit.

If we dont bet the flop the other guy is going to ace or not.

[broomcorn12]

Yupp. Your right. 2.5k is right move. But, u wouldnt call his reraise all in after bettin 5k, with 40BBs left?

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Yupp. Your right. 2.5k is right move. But, u wouldnt call his reraise all in after bettin 5k, with 40BBs left?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt here no. Maybe HOH2 will explain inflection points and pot committedness more but do I want to put my life on the line with this non nut draw when I still have a decent stack personally no. He has made two moves to win the pot and the guy has played back at him, personally I fold and look for a better position to repeat the betting pattern when I have somthing.

[tiger7210]

Overbet the flop was ceratinly not a good play on an Ace high board. Why call your last 23000 chips with blinds at 600 on a draw and not even the nut draw? If he (not likely) has the Ax /images/graemlins/spade.gif you could be drawing about dead. Piss your 7000 chips away, fold, and live to fight another day. Lie when you're done that you had 2 QQ's and tell him good hand and then go back to work and get the chips back. You still would have had a very healthy stack to play with.

[Sam T.]

Yikes.

I'm in the "Muck that crap pre-flop" crowd. Being the big stack means you get to abuse the mid-stacks, but you want to do so after they already have money in the pot by stealing their blinds, raising their limps, and cold-calling their raises and then stealing on the flop. Woodguy started what became a brilliant thread on big stack play here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=tourn&amp;Number=1481490&amp;f part=&amp;PHPSESSID=).

You know the flop bet was too much, but I think you need to respect your opponent's raise here. Everything you've done tells him you have a big hand, and he doesn't care. If he didn't flop TPTK with a flush draw or a set, I'll send you $100 in virtual chips.

Also, there is a HUGE difference between putting someone all-in with your flush draw and calling someone all-in with a flush draw. When you put someone all-in, you can win in two ways: he might fold OR you might hit your draw. If you call an all-in you have to hit your draw. So while the railbirds were obnoxious (turn observer chat off!), they did have a point.

My two cents,

Sam

[drewjustdrew]

I've played with you before, if you go by "The Jackal". You are a much better player than this.

I don't mind the preflop play.
I am adamantly opposed to calling the enormous all-in bet. You can't even beat a bluff at this point without catching a card. There will be much better opportunities.

[TheJackal]

(I'm not "TheJackal", I'm JakeMotrain. First off I want to say this was a satellite with about 90 people left and 13 spots paid.)


The big stack twice called my preflop raise, led out on the flop both times I missed and I folded. I know I didn't have to play against him, but I had been playing tight the entire time (tight-aggressive), and I thought an UTG raise would look like a strong hand, adding a bit of deception value along with most likely picking up the blinds. Well the big stack cold called with a fairly weak hand (AJo, he flopped two pair). When the flop came, I thought if he missed, he would not call a flop bet, and if he hit a piece he would only call. It really shocked me when he moved in, and my thoughts were AK/AQ. I'm sorry but even with a deep stack, I can't toss away a near 2:1 call on what is most likely a coinflip, thats giving up a lot. Well it wasn't quite a coinflip, but I was only a 41% dog. EV wise it's slighty positive (close to neutral), but if I win that pot I would not be handcuffed by the only other big stack at the table. I called, turn was a queen, giving me a few more outs, but the river was a ten and I was out. My only real regret was the bet on the flop, I feel if I bet less I wouldn't feel as committed to the pot and I could fold. The 5k bet was too large, and it forced me to call. Maybe the call was partly frustration, I seem to have bad timing whenever I try to make a play. As far as playing preflop, sometimes you need to throw in a raise with a suited connector or a small PP from early position just to keep your opponents guessing.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
The big stack twice called my preflop raise, led out on the flop both times I missed and I folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you decide to go up against a loose big stack who's likely to call you again with a subpar hand out of position to make things interesting?

Your only real regret shouldn't be betting the flop. It should be that you got yourself into this mess and don't even see why. A good start on that is 'what does a fish think like?' (hint: keeping him guessing isn't something that should matter to you)

[schwza]

raising non-premium hands utg is one of those things i feel like i probably should do if i wanted to balance my game properly, but never do (sort of like putting in a big bluff raise on the river).

i like the bet on the flop (but as others said, make it around 3600, not 5k). AQ/AK is a very plausible holding for you. but you have to fold to the push. there's too much of a chance that the villain is semi-bluffing his flush draw, and if he holds A /images/graemlins/spade.gifx /images/graemlins/spade.gif, you're drawing essentially dead.

muckity-muck.

[TheJackal]

[ QUOTE ]
So you decide to go up against a loose big stack who's likely to call you again with a subpar hand out of position to make things interesting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I overvalue table image, but I didn't know he would call me for sure. He wasn't the "I have a big stack so I will limp or call every hand guy", but he did show a willingness to call my few preflop raises I made (it's a lot tougher to steal when someone has you well covered on your left). I'm a tight player, but I don't know if that makes a large enough difference in a game where you are probably either the 1st or 2nd best player (as far as image goes). I know in a tougher game, deception is vital, here it probably isn't. Still I like T9s =)

[freehat]

I think you bet too much on the flop betting 2500-3000 accomplishes the same thing. And you can get off your hand to a push if you decide too.

How about checking the flop. If he bets somehthing like 2000 you can just call. If he bets 4000-500 you can check-raise all-in. And if he checks that's fine for you since you still have just 10 high and don't mind free cards.

[daveymck]

Does the fact it was a sattelite where everyone gets the same make it even worse of a call?

[schwza]

i didn't realize this was a satellite. yes, that makes it way worse.