Does Coach K Need to Hire a Free Throw Coach?

[MEbenhoe]

I have to rip on my own team here. Duke's inability to make free throws has cost them far too many games in the past, and almost cost them tonight's game. How can a team that always has a lot of talent be so consistently bad at shooting free throws?

P.S. on a completely side note WTF was up with the WF - Longwood game tonight? Was there a point to that?

[Clarkmeister]

I'm sure he works on it, he's too good a coach not to. Sometimes you have players who just aren't any good at it. With Reddick there to make them down the stretch I'd guess it shouldn't be a major factor if Duke were to lose in the tourney.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes you have players who just aren't any good at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree with this argument. Free throws are about the easiest thing in sports to get good at. All you have to do is shoot a lot of them.

My freshman year of basketball I was terrible, shooting somewhere between 50 and 60% from the free throw line. By the time I was a Junior I shot over 80% from the line for the year and had our varsity team's record for most free throws made in a row in practice with something in the 50s. All it took was a little practice.

[mmbt0ne]

Fu[/i]ck you. At least free throws are only 1 point. I have a 7 foot embarrassment whose inability to dunk the ball, TWICE, cost us the game.

The supposed double-foul when JJ was trying to anally rape Mohammad didn't help either.

Nor did 0 for the GODDAMN GAME from 3.

Oh, and they can't hit free throws any more because they're tired. Plain and simple.
JJ was 89/93 before Jan 26th
He is 59/66 since
Still not bad by ANY means, but it's obvious that the good players are getting played too much. Just look at their offense tonight. It was a lot more of a pull it out, and run the clock kinda set-up than Duke usually runs.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Fu[/i]ck you. At least free throws are only 1 point. I have a 7 foot embarrassment whose inability to dunk the ball, TWICE, cost us the game.

The supposed double-foul when JJ was trying to anally rape Mohammad didn't help either.

Nor did 0 for the GODDAMN GAME from 3.

Oh, and they can't hit free throws any more because they're tired. Plain and simple.
JJ was 89/93 before Jan 26th
He is 59/66 since
Still not bad by ANY means, but it's obvious that the good players are getting played too much. Just look at their offense tonight. It was a lot more of a pull it out, and run the clock kinda set-up than Duke usually runs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're just mad because you got beat by Duke's worst performance of the year.

[mmbt0ne]

NO FUC[/i]KING SHI[/i]T!!!!!!

mmbt0ne's NIT Bracket Buster:
1N. Not GT
1S. Not GT
1E. Not GT
1W. Not GT
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.
.
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4E. GT
The free-throw comment holds true however.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]

The free-throw comment holds true however.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not worried about Redick making only 90% instead of 95%, he still makes them in the clutch. I'm more worried about the consistent history of Duke players losing games due to their inability to make free throws at the end of the game. I thought the ghost of Jason Williams was in Atlanta tonight, watching that game.

[JTG51]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this argument. Free throws are about the easiest thing in sports to get good at. All you have to do is shoot a lot of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think anyone who isn't a good free throw shooter just doesn't practice them?

Have you ever watched Duke, or any other team, practice?

[mmbt0ne]

eh. Nelson shouldn't be on the line during any clutch situations to begin with. There's about 14000 students here who would like to have your worries right now.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this argument. Free throws are about the easiest thing in sports to get good at. All you have to do is shoot a lot of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think anyone who isn't a good free throw shooter just doesn't practice them?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they practice them, but its obvious if they're not good at them, they don't practice them enough.

[mmbt0ne]

That is 100% correct MEbenhoe. It pisses the hell out of me when Bynum misses a T, or Luke puts the front end off the rim like a left-handed girl.

I'll leave it up to DS for some further explanation.
Sklansky on Free Throws (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tv&Number=1203799&Forum=,, f23,,&Words=&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Main=1203799&Se arch=true&where=bodysub&Name=5&daterange=1&newerva l=1&newertype=&olderval=1&oldertype=m&bodyprev=#Po st1203799)

[Clarkmeister]

Any loss to Va Tech (who lost to VMI, Western Michigan and St. Johns) is a worse performance than any that is able to win a game.

As an aside, Va Tech being 7-6 in conference is a testament to just how shockingly thin the ACC has been after the top 2-3 teams.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Any loss to Va Tech (who lost to VMI, Western Michigan and St. Johns) is a worse performance than any that is able to win a game.

As an aside, Va Tech being 7-6 in conference is a testament to just how shockingly thin the ACC has been after the top 2-3 teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? Duke lost by 2 to Va Tech on the road, and they definitely played better in that game than they did tonight. VT just played their best game of the season. Also, VT is a bubble team right now for the tourney, so I'm not sure how you consider them proof that the ACC is thin. The ACC is by far stronger than the Big Ten, which is pitiful outside of Illinois, MSU, and UW.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this argument. Free throws are about the easiest thing in sports to get good at. All you have to do is shoot a lot of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think anyone who isn't a good free throw shooter just doesn't practice them?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they practice them, but its obvious if they're not good at them, they don't practice them enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's hogwash. Jordan had the worlds greatest work ethic, according to this he should have gotten to 90%. Why didn't he? Because he obviously could only get *so good* at that skill. The same logic works all the way down to guys like Shaq. Tim Duncan has recently been a terrible free throw shooter, but no one doubts his work ethic or practice habits.

Is it possible that Duke players aren't practicing them enough? Sure. But with a coach the calibur of the rat, I really doubt that adequate attention isn't being paid to that part of their game.

[MEbenhoe]

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[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with this argument. Free throws are about the easiest thing in sports to get good at. All you have to do is shoot a lot of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think anyone who isn't a good free throw shooter just doesn't practice them?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they practice them, but its obvious if they're not good at them, they don't practice them enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's hogwash. Jordan had the worlds greatest work ethic, according to this he should have gotten to 90%. Why didn't he? Because he obviously could only get *so good* at that skill. The same logic works all the way down to guys like Shaq. Tim Duncan has recently been a terrible free throw shooter, but no one doubts his work ethic or practice habits.

Is it possible that Duke players aren't practicing them enough? Sure. But with a coach the calibur of the rat, I really doubt that adequate attention isn't being paid to that part of their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're just not getting it Clark. Maybe Coach K spends a half hour a day in practice working on free throws. After that he still has players who don't shoot well. Well then you spend an hour a day, maybe even more on them. And you try different things, and you figure out what the reason is that they can't shoot them. Any good basketball player should be able to shoot at least 75% from the line, if not more.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
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I have to disagree with this argument. Free throws are about the easiest thing in sports to get good at. All you have to do is shoot a lot of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think anyone who isn't a good free throw shooter just doesn't practice them?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they practice them, but its obvious if they're not good at them, they don't practice them enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's hogwash. Jordan had the worlds greatest work ethic, according to this he should have gotten to 90%. Why didn't he? Because he obviously could only get *so good* at that skill. The same logic works all the way down to guys like Shaq. Tim Duncan has recently been a terrible free throw shooter, but no one doubts his work ethic or practice habits.

Is it possible that Duke players aren't practicing them enough? Sure. But with a coach the calibur of the rat, I really doubt that adequate attention isn't being paid to that part of their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're just not getting it Clark. Maybe Coach K spends a half hour a day in practice working on free throws. After that he still has players who don't shoot well. Well then you spend an hour a day, maybe even more on them. And you try different things, and you figure out what the reason is that they can't shoot them. Any good basketball player should be able to shoot at least 75% from the line, if not more.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I get it. Maybe he *does* spend an hour a day. Maybe he thinks that there are other skills that are more important and need more work than free throws. He only has a limited number of practice hours each week. Regardless, I'm sure the rat is quite cognizant of the importance of free throw shooting and works on it in a reasonable manner.

Anyways, I think that a statement like "Any good basketball player should be able to shoot at least 75% from the line, if not more" is false. Guys like Duncan, Chamberlain and Shaq by all accounts put in countless hours working on it and simply cannot get beyond a certain point. Using your logic, everyone could be a pro golfer given enough practice, and that's certainly not true. Shooting free throws is just a simpler version of the same concept. Players have a limit on how good they can be at it. Jordans limit was in the mid 80%'s. Others' limit is at 70%. I don't know why that is difficult to accept.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, I think that a statement like "Any good basketball player should be able to shoot at least 75% from the line, if not more" is false. Guys like Duncan, Chamberlain and Shaq by all accounts put in countless hours working on it and simply cannot get beyond a certain point. Using your logic, everyone could be a pro golfer given enough practice, and that's certainly not true. Shooting free throws is just a simpler version of the same concept. Players have a limit on how good they can be at it. Jordans limit was in the mid 80%'s. Others' limit is at 70%. I don't know why that is difficult to accept.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe for Shaq and Duncan they're going about it the wrong way. However, it is worth mentioning the only people that ever fit this profile are the giants of the game.

With that said, the reason I disagree with you on this, is that I or any good shooting coach could take any reasonably fit coordinated person off the street and have him shooting at least 75% from the free throw line in a month or less.

As far as your comment on limited practice hours, thats where dedication by the player to stay after for long hours should step in.

[JTG51]

"Also, VT is a bubble team right now for the tourney, so I'm not sure how you consider them proof that the ACC is thin."

The fact that VT is on the bubble is proof that the ACC is thin. They were 7-9 last year in the Big East, lost their best player, and are now 7-6 in the ACC.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
"Also, VT is a bubble team right now for the tourney, so I'm not sure how you consider them proof that the ACC is thin."

The fact that VT is on the bubble is proof that the ACC is thin. They were 7-9 last year in the Big East, lost their best player, and are now 7-6 in the ACC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thin by what standards? There isnt another conference out there other than the Big East that could match up top to bottom with them. Also, 7-9 in the Big East last year is pretty decent considering the talent in that conference.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
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Any loss to Va Tech (who lost to VMI, Western Michigan and St. Johns) is a worse performance than any that is able to win a game.

As an aside, Va Tech being 7-6 in conference is a testament to just how shockingly thin the ACC has been after the top 2-3 teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? Duke lost by 2 to Va Tech on the road, and they definitely played better in that game than they did tonight. VT just played their best game of the season. Also, VT is a bubble team right now for the tourney, so I'm not sure how you consider them proof that the ACC is thin. The ACC is by far stronger than the Big Ten, which is pitiful outside of Illinois, MSU, and UW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Va Tech is a terrible, terrible basketball team.

Barely beat Tennessee-Chattanooga at home by 4
Lost to 8-18 VMI
Lost to 9-15 (3-11 in the Big East) St. Johns by 10 points.
Lost at home to Western Michigan

And then they get to conference play in the mighty ACC and manage to go 7-6?? Ha. Yeah, real deep conference.

And I'm not contending that the BT is great this year. But the ACC is a distant second to the Big East this year, and is an insanely overrated conference beyond the top 2-3 teams.

[JTG51]

I guess VT did get two easy wins against Miami, another team that has a much better conference record this year than last despite losing its best player. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The point is, other than UNC, Duke, and Wake, this is really a down year for the ACC.

[WEASEL45]

[ QUOTE ]
However, it is worth mentioning the only people that ever fit this profile are the giants of the game.


[/ QUOTE ]
not true. Bruce Bowen shoots .64 from the line

[Clarkmeister]

Gary Payton is a career 72% shooter.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess VT did get two easy wins against Miami, another team that has a much better conference record this year than last despite losing its best player. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The point is, other than UNC, Duke, and Wake, this is really a down year for the ACC.

[/ QUOTE ]

k, so what we've established is down year for the ACC = them still tougher than every conference other than the Big East. sounds about right.

[Clarkmeister]

BTW, do your Jackets even make the tourney now? I'm thinking no. One quality win at home by 1 over Wake and that's it. Lost to every other quality team they played and are staring at 8-8 in conference behind schlock teams like Va Tech. Iffy at best.

[DemonDeac]

[ QUOTE ]


P.S. on a completely side note WTF was up with the WF - Longwood game tonight? Was there a point to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

YEA, HOW BOUT THEM DEACS!!!!

[mmbt0ne]

If they make the field it's gonna be on blind adherence to preseason polls, and pity.

Bah, way to go out strong senior class.

[DukeSucks]

[ QUOTE ]
Fu[/i]ck you. At least free throws are only 1 point. I have a 7 foot embarrassment whose inability to dunk the ball, TWICE, cost us the game.

The supposed double-foul when JJ was trying to anally rape Mohammad didn't help either.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to rile you up any more, but here's another reason for you to hate Vitale's love child. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
http://img208.exs.cx/img208/3406/jjcurse0gi.gif

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fu[/i]ck you. At least free throws are only 1 point. I have a 7 foot embarrassment whose inability to dunk the ball, TWICE, cost us the game.

The supposed double-foul when JJ was trying to anally rape Mohammad didn't help either.



[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to rile you up any more, but here's another reason for you to hate Vitale's love child. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
http://img208.exs.cx/img208/3406/jjcurse0gi.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who rips on Redick merely for swearing in the heat of battle has never played any sport at a high level.

[Dangergirl]

You can hate on JJ as much as you want but bottom line is he's a hell of a shooter. The guy has to work 2 to 3 times as hard as anyone in college bball to get open. He hardly gets an easy look at the basket and he still nails shots. You see guys in college basketball and the NBA cuss all the time. It's all too common.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
You can hate on JJ as much as you want but bottom line is he's a hell of a shooter. The guy has to work 2 to 3 times as hard as anyone in college bball to get open. He hardly gets an easy look at the basket and he still nails shots. You see guys in college basketball and the NBA cuss all the time. It's all too common.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I love you. /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Porcupine]

Plenty of reasons to hate Dook, but I don't think JJ is one of them.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />

Not trying to rile you up any more, but here's another reason for you to hate Vitale's love child. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
http://img208.exs.cx/img208/3406/jjcurse0gi.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man, I remember that game too. First he's all over Elder right in front of our bench and then pushes him when they get up. God, Brooks was about 4 feet away from punching him right in the face.

Something about ATL just seems to get JJ in a pissy mood.

[Shajen]

I've never seen so many shots rattle in and out like that.

Doesn't Tech have ways to make a softer rim for themselves?

Wow.

[mmbt0ne]

Man, if we got 1/2 the points every time one of BJ's shots went in-and-out we win that game going away. The rim was AWFUL to us.

Nothing else really to say though. We can't play better defense against Duke than that, and if we can't win with that effort because shots aren't falling, we can't win. If we keep playing that defense through the ACC tourney though, and we don't run into UNC, there's an outside shot at a bid still.

[Shajen]

I'm a Duke fan through and through, but I do have a soft spot for Tech in the lump of coal where my heart used to be.

Was an ugly ugly game.

I still say Tech makes the big tourney this year. Unless they bomb out in the ACC tourney. In which case, it's NIT baby.

Which would be demoralizing, considering they played for the Nat. Championship last year.