Surviving an elevator accident

[KowCiller]

Sorry if this question sucks or is uninteresting but I had a thought while taking the elevator to the vending machine.

Lets say the cables in the elevator broke and whatever safety mechanism that was in place to stop the elevator malfunctioned. The elevator is plummeting to the bottom floor. Lets say as the elevator is in it's descent, you could see the floor numbers counting down.

The question is, with perfect timing, would you be able to jump inside the elevator the instant before it hit the bottom and survive the crash?

Is this possible? Why or why not? (or "who cares?")

[Nick B.]

no. they tested this on myth busters.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if this question sucks or is uninteresting but I had a thought while taking the elevator to the vending machine.

Lets say the cables in the elevator broke and whatever safety mechanism that was in place to stop the elevator malfunctioned. The elevator is plummeting to the bottom floor. Lets say as the elevator is in it's descent, you could see the floor numbers counting down.

The question is, with perfect timing, would you be able to jump inside the elevator the instant before it hit the bottom and survive the crash?

Is this possible? Why or why not? (or "who cares?")

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see Lindsay Lohan try it.

[KowCiller]

Dang, I have not seen that episode. Thanks.

[willie]

was this question even serious?

your body is going down as fast as the elevator, so you're final stop would be as brutal as the elevator, jumping or not.

[PhatTBoll]

force = mass * acceleration.

The small amount of force you generate by jumping off the elevator floor is nowhere near enough to counteract the speed with which you have been hurling to the ground.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
was this question even serious?

your body is going down as fast as the elevator, so you're final stop would be as brutal as the elevator, jumping or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somehow I think that if any of us ended up in an elevator that was falling we'd try it regardless of whether it's a myth or not. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[B00T]

I am assuming the whole in an object of motion that when it meets resistance you will continue going...If you jump I am certain you will still be driven to the bottom of the elevator so hard with the "centrifrugal force" <--- I know thats not it, but its the same concept of being in a car and hitting something. You will still be going forward from that whatever it is.

I'm no rocket scientist but I'm sure Patrick can provide better terms. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[willie]

i'd be too busy dropping a 40story deuce in my pants and screaming to jump

[asofel]

I have finally seen it...the post that lets me know I'm not alone...for I too have wondered about this, and what I'd do. I don't think you'd have much time if it was only a few stories....and if it was big, then climbing out the top and trying to pull a matrix move probably wouldn't work so well...

/i'd still try to jump tho...

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
no. they tested this on myth busters.

[/ QUOTE ]

amazing that people actually could believe this to be true that they actually had to test it on a TV show.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
I am assuming the whole in an object of motion that when it meets resistance you will continue going...If you jump I am certain you will still be driven to the bottom of the elevator so hard with the "centrifrugal force" <--- I know thats not it, but its the same concept of being in a car and hitting something. You will still be going forward from that whatever it is.

I'm no rocket scientist but I'm sure Patrick can provide better terms. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't care to go into details on any of this except to say that you completely misunderstand centrifugal force.

Also, this elevator jumping thing won't work.

[jakethebake]

I had training on jumping from a moving vehicle/train a long time ago. We were trained to jump forward at a run. Obviously when you hit the ground, you couldn't be running as fast as you had been travelling in the vehicle. But you could reduce the difference enough to land safely.

[mmbt0ne]

You're going down pretty damn fast. What makes you think that you can create enough force in your legs to change your direction?

Also, the elevator is going to collapse when it hits, so all you'll be doing is jumping into what will crush down on you.

[KowCiller]

[ QUOTE ]
was this question even serious?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll admit it was semi serious. Obviously I didn't honestly think a person could survive by doing it, but I wasn't sure the precise reason why...I've never taken a physics class or anything, so I wanted to know why it wasn't possible.

KoW

[felson]

Yeah, this might work, if you could jump fast enough to equal the speed of the elevator falling down, which you can't. If you could, it would mean that you are roughly able to jump to a 10 story height or whatever height corresponds to the elevator's terminal velocity.

Even if you were that strong, the upward acceleration of that kind of jump is about equal to the downward acceleration of the crash. Regardless of your lower-body strength, your ankles are toast, and probably the rest of you too.

[MelchyBeau]

[ QUOTE ]
I am assuming the whole in an object of motion that when it meets resistance you will continue going...If you jump I am certain you will still be driven to the bottom of the elevator so hard with the "centrifrugal force" <--- I know thats not it, but its the same concept of being in a car and hitting something. You will still be going forward from that whatever it is.


[/ QUOTE ]

centrifugal force is due to rotation. you aren't going to feel it in a car wreck or an elevator, unless it is spinning for some reason.

Melch

[Voltron87]

Jumping will not help you survive at all. It won't even help a little bit if the elevator is in a true freefall, as the force exerted by your legs will not be pushed back on, as the elevator floor cannot exert it. Its the "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction law", etc.

Imagine you are in an ice rink. The ice is covered in an oil slick, there is no friction. There is a block of ice (unattached to the floor) in the middle. If you push against it, you will not be able to push yourself backwards assuming there is no friction between the two surfaces. Analagous.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
centrifugal force is due to rotation.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's also not a real force. The only real force involved in these kinds of events is centripetal force. Here (http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/t-3868_centripetal_versus_centrifugal.html) is a good explanation - read the post by Hyperreality.

[M2d]

I think you will actually move. the center of mass (btw you and the ice block) will stay the same, but you'll both move away from each other.

in the elevator thing, your jump will move you away from the elevator car, but, relative to the ground, you're screwed.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
Jumping will not help you survive at all. It won't even help a little bit if the elevator is in a true freefall, as the force exerted by your legs will not be pushed back on, as the elevator floor cannot exert it. Its the "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction law", etc.

Imagine you are in an ice rink. The ice is covered in an oil slick, there is no friction. There is a block of ice (unattached to the floor) in the middle. If you push against it, you will not be able to push yourself backwards assuming there is no friction between the two surfaces. Analagous.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually when you jump you accelerate the elevator downward, so it does push back on you. just not nearly enough to slow you down much.

[Voltron87]

It will move you slower relatively to the elevator but not the ground. It will move the elevator faster downward but since the elevator is in freefall it cannot exert a force back on you to move you.

[J_V]

I've thought the same thing. You wouldn't be able to jump I don't think as there would be no resistance to use. Sort've like jumping off the Sears Tower and "jumping" before you landed.

[JackWilson]

Even if you could, the resulting explosion/crash would kill you.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

There would be some force - it's provided by the same thing that limits the elevator to its terminal velocity. There'd also be other small effects that would provide some force for you.

[judgesmails]

Elevators fall "up". The are counterweighted and built to go to the top floor if the cables fail.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Elevators fall "up". The are counterweighted and built to go to the top floor if the cables fail.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is moot, since the OP stated the problem such that all safety measures have failed. The hypothetical situation is that the elevator is freefalling.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
There would be some force - it's provided by the same thing that limits the elevator to its terminal velocity. There'd also be other small effects that would provide some force for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only force that you would get to use is the air resistance on the elevator, that would allow you a tiny bit of push. I assume thats what you mean by the terminal velocity force. Other than the air resistance you would have no push. Assuming we're in a vacuum/ physics problem you would get no push, or at least none relative to the ground.

I'm not sure if you would move the elevator faster to you(but not you slower relative to the ground) or not at all.

[Pinga]

[ QUOTE ]
Elevators fall "up". The are counterweighted and built to go to the top floor if the cables fail.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read this and thought, "wouldn't a counterweight require a cable?"

This site (http://science.howstuffworks.com/elevator3.htm) says the counterweights are to conserve energy rather than for safety (http://science.howstuffworks.com/elevator4.htm) reasons. Nay?

BTW, I agree with the posters who think almost everyone would jump. Most first timer parachuters try to run back into the plane.
--
Pinga

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Jumping will not help you survive at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still jumping until someone comes with a better idea. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

if you were free falling in an elevator, you would be weightless.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still jumping until someone comes with a better idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might have a better chance of surviving if you laid completely flat on your back. Stand up ---> body turns into whip ---> bodies kenetic energy gets concentrated into slamming the head against the floor.

[EliteNinja]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still jumping until someone comes with a better idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

This post is so funny.
Yah, gravity will pwn you even if you jump at the last second.

Say you had super-strength jumping ability. If you jumped really hard, you'd hit the ceiling of the elevator so hard you would die.

[IggyWH]

The best way is to curl into a tight ball.















...and kiss your ass goodbye.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this might work, if you could jump fast enough to equal the speed of the elevator falling down, which you can't. If you could, it would mean that you are roughly able to jump to a 10 story height or whatever height corresponds to the elevator's terminal velocity.

Even if you were that strong, the upward acceleration of that kind of jump is about equal to the downward acceleration of the crash. Regardless of your lower-body strength, your ankles are toast, and probably the rest of you too.

[/ QUOTE ]

So.... like... does that mean Spiderman could do it?

[jstnrgrs]

[ QUOTE ]
Say you had super-strength jumping ability. If you jumped really hard, you'd hit the ceiling of the elevator so hard you would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

IF the elevator were perfectly rigid (would not crush like a soda can), AND you timed your jump perfectly, AND you jumped with just the right amount of force (neither to much nor to little), you could avoid hitting you head, because while you are in the air, the elevator (including to roof of the elevator) would be accelerated upward by the ground.

A prefectly rigid elevator would likely bounce back to close to the hight it origionally fell from, maybe you could step off at the floor you dtarted at and take the stairs down. Of course if you have the ability to execute such a jump, then I'd say there's a good chance you will be able to survive the crash anyway.

[jstnrgrs]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if you would move the elevator faster to you(but not you slower relative to the ground) or not at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you could slow yourself relative to the ground. When you push down on the floor of the elevator, it will speed up, and you will slow down. The center of mass of the person elevator system will continue to accelerate.

[Jamper]

Alternately, you could make the fastest wink-wink nudge-nudge of your soon-to-be lost life & jump the biggest girl you see in the elevator...

Not only do you get a last hurrah, but also a cushion to break the fall. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
IF the elevator were perfectly rigid (would not crush like a soda can), AND you timed your jump perfectly, AND you jumped with just the right amount of force (neither to much nor to little), you could avoid hitting you head, because while you are in the air, the elevator (including to roof of the elevator) would be accelerated upward by the ground.

A prefectly rigid elevator would likely bounce back to close to the hight it origionally fell from, maybe you could step off at the floor you dtarted at and take the stairs down. Of course if you have the ability to execute such a jump, then I'd say there's a good chance you will be able to survive the crash anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

In case you didn't know, heavy objects fall at a very fast rate and the average human can only jump... well, not that high and nowhere near that fast.

[jdl22]

How is weight relevant?

[Caruso329]

Negating air resistance all objects fall at the same velocity. If you are in a vacuum and take a rock and a leaf and drop them at the same time, they will fall at the same rate. That's why the penny off the empire state building myth is false.

Ok, I have also wondered something similar to this as a child watching Looney Tunes. When Wile E. Coyote is on the edge of a cliff, and that part breaks off, he rides it to the bottom where it hits. Now, would the same concept apply if he were able to jump at the moment before it hit the ground and survive because there was no roof for him to hit his head on?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
How is weight relevant?

[/ QUOTE ]

well unless wacki thinks heavy objects fall faster cuz of gravity (which could be possible), Im guessing he means it will have a higher terminal velocity

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm still jumping until someone comes with a better idea.

[/ QUOTE ]
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
This post is so funny. Yah, gravity will pwn you even if you jump at the last second. Say you had super-strength jumping ability. If you jumped really hard, you'd hit the ceiling of the elevator so hard you would die.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand all that, but can't hoit. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course if you have the ability to execute such a jump, then I'd say there's a good chance you will be able to survive the crash anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had the ability to execute such a jump, you wouldn't need to use an elevator in the first place.

[CORed]

Even if the elevator is in freefall, your jump would give you upward velocity relative to the elvator, because the mass of the elevator is much higher than your mass. You would acceerate the elevator downward a little, and accelerate yourself upward considerably more. You still wouldn't change your velocity relative to the ground enough to do you any good, of course. Also, if the elevator is in freefall, you might well drifft far enough away from floor that you would not be able to push off of it. If the elevator has reached terminal velocity, you would experience a normal 1g, until it hit bottom, when you would experience enough acceleration to kill you.

[jstnrgrs]

yes, I did know that.

[jstnrgrs]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I have also wondered something similar to this as a child watching Looney Tunes. When Wile E. Coyote is on the edge of a cliff, and that part breaks off, he rides it to the bottom where it hits. Now, would the same concept apply if he were able to jump at the moment before it hit the ground and survive because there was no roof for him to hit his head on?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Wile E. Coyote will survive no matter what he does.

If we are in the real world, there is no way that he could jump that high.

If we were in a world in which Wile could die, but he also had super jumping capabilities, then yes, he could survive.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
How is weight relevant?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless if you are in a vacuum, it is very relevant for speed. Otherwise, there is this thing called inerta.