QQ on A-hi flop

[DavidC]

Would a better line have been:

-raise the flop, with intent:

-call a re-raise and fold turn unimproved

-if they call, bet the turn if they checked to me, then take a free showdown if they call

I don't think my current line took advantage of my position, or really put me in a position to see what my opponents held. The only thing that's good about my decision to call is that I didn't have a chance of knocking out opponents (holding a K) with a raise.

Comments?

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Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

[Thigh]

Considering your position, I think I would have raised the flop to see what everyone else had. Looking at it, the only one that could have raised your bet would have been UTG+1.

I think I would have raised the turn also. If somebody's got top pair or trips, they would have raised by now. That would only have left UTG+1 to be that person. Which you would have found out about on the flop with a raise.

I think you were running the chance of letting them draw out on you.

[gvibes]

I've taken to raising the flop, in order to find out where I'm at on the cheap streets. You aren't ahead of too many hands that bet out here, other than a flush draw

If UTG+1 3-bets, I would either fold right there, or call and see if he bets out on the turn (if he checks the turn, I assume flush draw, but probably wouldn't bet out for fear of being c/red).

If I raise, UTG+1 calls, and UTG+1 checks the turn, I check behind and check/call the river. The flop raise could have easily shut down an Ace with weak/kicker.

Tough hand.

[zeropotential]

I fold this @ the flop, especially with CO calling. Aces tend to stick to players.

[mungpo]

Don't fold this hand on the flop, at least call.

[DavidC]

As it turns out, the guy had A6s to win.

The reason that I was thinking of betting the turn rather than the river with the QQ was because if I spike a Q on the river I get an extra bet out of it.

I think that in order to do this, though, I need to be able to fold the turn to a check-raise.

I'm not too sure, though.

--Dave.

[DavidC]

I have to agree... it will take a lot more than 1 bet to make me put down QQ.

The question becomes, "If I won't fold it, how should I play it?"

I agree that aces tend to stick.

Actually, this isn't totally true: if there's a majority of good players, and it's unraised, then I probably don't have to worry about it.

Other than that, though, I want to find a way of getting to the river with as much EV as I can muster. I don't think putting down QQ is +EV in this case, especially given what I've seen some of these clowns bet out with.

Edit: If I'd have posted this on the small stakes forum they would have chided me for dropping the commando.

[LowDown22]

Tough hand. If anyone hit this flop you have at most like 3.5 outs(2 Qs plus backdoor flush potential). Reads would really help. Could UTG+1 bet a flush draw like this, does he like to stab at pots when the board is scary, is he passive and only bets with solid hands?

Being that we have no reads I would take one of two lines, either the cheapest showdown possible or just fold on the flop. The cheapest showdown method in this hand (for me) would be to raise the flop, bet the turn (make the flush draws pay), and check through the river. All the while folding to any raise.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to agree... it will take a lot more than 1 bet to make me put down QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is profitable thinking. I don't think calling down every time I have QQ and and the board includes 1 over and paired under is +EV.

[flopwell]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't fold this hand on the flop, at least call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. Raise or fold here.....and fold to a reraise

[Meech]

I think I'd raise the flop. If 3-bet, I'd pop a card off getting 15:1. With no improvement on the turn, I'd go into check/fold mode.

[DavidC]

Good point re: the pair.

[DavidC]

The bettor LAP.

I had and have fewer than 5 hands on the caller.

Sorry about not including that.

--Dave.

[djshawk]

by raising the turn and continuing your agression, Mr A6 might have folded the best hand on this scary board.

[buffett]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this @ the flop, especially with CO calling.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did this last night holding 99 on the button, with a blind betting and an MP calling on a Q77 flop. Turns out I would have won the hand with 9's and 7's. Dang.
-web

[DeathDonkey]

I call the flop and fold the turn. Even that flop call is loose. You maniacs want to start raising? This is the worst flop ever.

-DeathDonkey

[dkernler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold this @ the flop, especially with CO calling.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did this last night holding 99 on the button, with a blind betting and an MP calling on a Q77 flop. Turns out I would have won the hand with 9's and 7's.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've done this, too, but I still feel comfortable folding in most cases here. The 1 time we're ahead won't make up for the 20 times we're behind. It's not worth calling down just so don't feel stupid.

[Shillx]

This looks okay. Popping the turn and taking a showdown looks like a decent line as well. With the 3rd player in the pot, you can afford to be wrong more often then if it is just HU. Also you can turbomuck to a 3-bet which is nice.

Brad