All-in on flop with flush draw

[Jonathan]

Hi,

Lately, I see more and more people doing this....its become almost automatic. The example below is taken from a Pokerstars $20 + $2 with about 220 remaining and 45 places pay.

UTG+1 is holding 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif .What do you think of his all-in? Comments on my preflop raise are also welcome.

Suerte,
jonathan

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t1385)
Button (t2023)
SB (t7410)
BB (t1420)
UTG (t8089)
UTG+1 (t4130)
Hero (t3930)
MP2 (t945)
MP3 (t4890)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t100, UTG+1 calls t100, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls t200, UTG calls t200, UTG+1 calls t200.

Flop: (t1250) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1000</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t3830</font>, Hero calls t2630 (All-In).

Turn: (t8710) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>



River: (t8710) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t8710 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[crookedhat99]

The only time going all-in with a flush draw is good is on a semi-bluff. If his motive for doing that was because he thought you would fold (don't see how he could've thought that though), then it was OK, but if he thought you would call, that's a very stupid play and you should be glad he's willing to give you his chips. Basically he should've folded to your raise...his chip stack was alright and he could see you were committing all your chips to the pot with that raise. If he had overcards and a flush draw, or a flush draw and a pair, I could see some merit to that but he didn't so I don't.

[Bernas]

All you need to do is look at his preflop play to realize that he doesn't have a clue. UTG+1 with 2 5? Come on. Gus Hansen would lay that down.

After the flop, he has a lot better chance of winning the hand than he did before the flop so why not?

Just be glad you got to play with such a brutal player.

[hurlyburly]

God bless him! I think it was kind of a semibluff attempt, because tens, jacks and aces can be played this way as well. Without a strong read this would be a tough call.

I like your raise, because its discouraging the shortstacks behind you from pushing without having the goods, and it's an easy bet to get away from.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]
All you need to do is look at his preflop play to realize that he doesn't have a clue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, of course you are absolutely right.
But my point was that I've seen this kind of all-in
4 0r 5 times in my last few MTT's.

I guess there are alot of people who don't have clue! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Suerte,
Jonathan

[drewjustdrew]

I think a lot of people are learning by watching WPT episodes. Truly a tragedy for their games. They don't realize the importance of stack sizes in some of the "crazy" plays they see on TV.

(side note - pokerstars 15-30, just had a player 4 bet me on the river with the ignorant end of a 4 card straight board. I had the smart end. $400 pot /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is holding 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif .What do you think of his all-in? Comments on my preflop raise are also welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

On these ratios, his preflop limp sucked. His post flop allin wasn't great given you had shown a lot of strength. But if he's gonna be limp-calling raises preflop on these ratios in these situations, he needs to play it on the flop as he did. Even more reason why he made a terrible play preflop.

I didn't like the 200 preflop raise with ATs. What was your thinking? Getting away if shorter stacks behind you moved in? Given the limpers and the stacks to act behind me, I'd rather fold or raise more here. Folding looks the best bet typically.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
The only time going all-in with a flush draw is good is on a semi-bluff. If his motive for doing that was because he thought you would fold (don't see how he could've thought that though),

[/ QUOTE ]

i (and others) would play AK/AQ exactly as hero did, and those hands are sure not calling the push.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't like the 200 preflop raise with ATs. What was your thinking? Getting away if shorter stacks behind you moved in? Given the limpers and the stacks to act behind me, I'd rather fold or raise more here. Folding looks the best bet typically.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's interesting.... i think i would have limped here. do you not like the limp b/c you'll have to fold to a raise? my choices would be

- limp
- raise to 450
- fold
- raise to 300

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
that's interesting.... i think i would have limped here. do you not like the limp b/c you'll have to fold to a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I glanced at the stacks still to act and there looked to be some shorter ones than I'd like for limping with a suited ace out of position. Given my position, some of the stacks behind, other ratios, and 2 early limpers, I don't like bulding a hand with AT, suited or not. The most likely hands I'm building don't appeal to me in this situation.

Even if all the stacks still to act were the same size as mine, there's still a case for folding here. 40X BB ratio isn't great for these hands in some situations.

[pif]

so this is absolutly stupid move.