A9o, in front of pf maniac

[zephed56]

<font color="purple">Opponent raises about 50% of all his hands, and limps the other half. Pretty nice, I've hit a few big pots because of him. Postflop, he plays loose passive, but he's capable of folding. He rarely LAGs it up postflop.

The rest of the table is half split between tightish easy to read players and loose passives. I've been taking advantage of this players willingness to 3-bet me so I can thin the field. I am able to raise more marginal hands because of this. I feel like I am in control of this table.

Also, I came into this table when it was 5 handed, and it was full of loose players. I'm having a lot of success with this method of table selection.
</font>
<font color="blue">Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>

[applej25]

umm, way to go.

What exactly are you asking?

[sthief09]

given your description, perfect

[zephed56]

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umm, way to go.

What exactly are you asking?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I often have the best hand on the flop. I was wondering if my assumption is correct. I wouldn't mind him folding here at all, but I still believe I'm best here. What do you think? I don't know if I've ever bet A high for value.

I'd also like to hear how others select tables. Most of the full tables I get on are full of TAG's. I hate it. I don't know how to play against them.

Tips? Play even tighter preflop, raise less? Less value betting with marginal hands? Check those behind on the river? Or bet/fold? I suck at bluffing too btw. Thank you microlimits!

[me454555]

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I don't know if I've ever bet A high for value

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Why? this seems like a great move in this situation. His flop call indicatest that you might very well be good. This is the perfect board to value bet ace high on. Well done

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I suck at bluffing too btw. Thank you microlimits!

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Pick up a copy of ciaffone's "improve your poker" There is a section on bluffing that you might find helpful. It may not help you @ your current level but it will help you down the road. For the record, I thinkt he whole book is pretty good and definatly worht a read.

[zephed56]

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I don't know if I've ever bet A high for value

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Why? this seems like a great move in this situation. His flop call indicatest that you might very well be good. This is the perfect board to value bet ace high on. Well done

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I suck at bluffing too btw. Thank you microlimits!

[/ QUOTE ]

Pick up a copy of ciaffone's "improve your poker" There is a section on bluffing that you might find helpful. It may not help you @ your current level but it will help you down the road. For the record, I thinkt he whole book is pretty good and definatly worht a read.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll pick it up. Thanks.

[applej25]

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I think I often have the best hand on the flop. I was wondering if my assumption is correct. I wouldn't mind him folding here at all, but I still believe I'm best here. What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely.

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I don't know if I've ever bet A high for value.


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This is a leak. A lesson I learned from playing a lot of shorthanded (among many others).

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I'd also like to hear how others select tables. Most of the full tables I get on are full of TAG's. I hate it. I don't know how to play against them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Find a table that has at least one LP and maybe a LAG or two. You'll be able to pick these players out after watching an orbit or two. They'll be seeing the majority of the flops.

As far as playing at a table full of TAG, this may sound crazy, but I raise MORE. Sure you'll get reraised when one of them has a hand, but you'll make a lot of steals. And when you catch they'll be overplaying their premium pair or AK unimproved and you'll win some good pots. This takes some experience so don't expect to just be able to 'do' what I'm saying just by reading this. I'm just trying to give you an idea.

My advice would be to play only at 6max tables for a couple months, or at least until you beat the game for 1-2 bb's. I played 6max almost exclusively for a year and the improvements I've made to my game are astounding. I've recently returned to full ring and it almost seems too easy.

[Shillx]

Lol. Play this guy just like you would play against me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

It seems like you are betting the best hand in this spot.

Brad

[zephed56]

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I don't know if I've ever bet A high for value.


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This is a leak. A lesson I learned from playing a lot of shorthanded (among many others).


[/ QUOTE ]
I take that back about not value betting A-high, because I have been playing at 1/2 6-max for about 40k hands with a juicy profit (&gt; 2BB/100). I have certainly bet that for value there.

I haven't played full-ring in awhile, and when I did I was not the same player I am today. So, I guess it's possible I could have consciously been doing that back at .5/1 full, but I don't remember. It's a little different to me at a full table. Not to mention, I am not used to full tables ending up with 2-3 way pots so often.

[sthief09]

you're not so much value betting (which connotes wanting to get called). you're more preventing a free card. if he was laggy postflop you'd be better off checking

[spydog]

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Postflop, he plays loose passive, but he's capable of folding. He rarely LAGs it up postflop.

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Then, you must value-cap preflop with hands like A9o. Get your money in preflop with a better hand if he plays passively postflop. You are more likely to take this one down on the flop if he whiffs when you cap the flop since you said he isn't afraid of folding.

[chief444]

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Also, I came into this table when it was 5 handed, and it was full of loose players. I'm having a lot of success with this method of table selection.


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I play pretty loose when it's 5 handed as well.

This hand looks fine.

[QTip]

I'm reading this post with my jaw on the floor...

I would have folded this preflop %100 of the time without even considering a call, let alone a raise.

I've always understood A9o to be garbage especially EP and MP and I throw it away late as well. I might try to steal with it nowadays...but I can't beleive I'm reading this. Where am I here?!

[zephed56]

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I'm reading this post with my jaw on the floor...

I would have folded this preflop %100 of the time without even considering a call, let alone a raise.

I've always understood A9o to be garbage especially EP and MP and I throw it away late as well. I might try to steal with it nowadays...but I can't beleive I'm reading this. Where am I here?!

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I just jumped up from the 6-max games. I don't think this is too loose. MP3 is a pretty good spot.

[spydog]

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I'm reading this post with my jaw on the floor...

I would have folded this preflop %100 of the time without even considering a call, let alone a raise.

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I openraise A9o from MP3 100% of the time at 2/4 and 3/6.

[zephed56]

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Also, I came into this table when it was 5 handed, and it was full of loose players. I'm having a lot of success with this method of table selection.


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I play pretty loose when it's 5 handed as well.

This hand looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
I mean they were loose for SH play as well.

[QTip]

I'm in shock...

What are your stats for A9o with what # of hands? This hand just seems so weak to me...especially with 4 players yet to act. I drop it like it's poison.

What if you had 2 callers and you were still MP3 (let's assume 3 scenarios: 2 tight callers, 2 loose callers, and 1 of each) What would you do then.

[chief444]

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I would have folded this preflop %100 of the time without even considering a call, let alone a raise.


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Open raising with A9 from MP3 is fine. With this type of player in the CO who is very likely to 3-bet you with a worse hand it's even better.

[chief444]

Yea...I understood. I was just being a smart a$$. I do the same thing sometimes. If I multitable though I don't because it's enough trouble keeping tables open without starting out shorthanded. Plus my shorthanded game isn't as strong as it should be.

[QTip]

Man...I've got some adjusting to do PF. I do understand the maniac to your left will generally isolate you...

I think I'm just remember something from SSHE "I certainly hope you never play with anything as weak as A9os"...it really seems like I remember reading that. But I'm learning that PF play is very situational and needs to be tailored much more than a section in a book can explain.

Since I've been reading and posting in this forum, my stats are beginning to morph.

I was 15-16/7.1 with extrememly high AF on high streets and only 1.6 AF on the flop.

Now I'm morphing to 18/8.8 with just a bit high AF on high streets and a 2.5 AF on the flop.

I think this is a good thing change.

[spydog]

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I'm in shock...

What are your stats for A9o with what # of hands? This hand just seems so weak to me...especially with 4 players yet to act. I drop it like it's poison.

What if you had 2 callers and you were still MP3 (let's assume 3 scenarios: 2 tight callers, 2 loose callers, and 1 of each) What would you do then.

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I shouldn't say I always open-raise this hand. If the CO and button are loose, I just muck it. I'm usually mucking it after 1 limper, unless he's terrible. And, I'm always mucking it after 2 limpers.

Stats:

16 times I have openraised A7o-A9o from MP3 for +.77BB

Small sample, but good results.

[QTip]

OK..this is making more sense now. So, when you open raise MP3 or later, you're basically trying to steal..correct...You're wanting to see 4 folds or 4 calls and AA9 on the flop.

[chief444]

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I was 15-16/7.1 with extrememly high AF on high streets and only 1.6 AF on the flop.

Now I'm morphing to 18/8.8 with just a bit high AF on high streets and a 2.5 AF on the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong, I don't think folding here would be terrible. I'll fold something marginal like this at times if I'm involved in a couple of hands on my other tables. I'm still getting used to multitabling. I played mostly B&amp;M until a month or two ago. But I would often (most of the time) open raise here. My 2/4 stats are like 18/10-11. I'm probably a little more Laggy preflop than the average poster.

[chief444]

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OK..this is making more sense now. So, when you open raise MP3 or later, you're basically trying to steal..correct...You're wanting to see 4 folds or 4 calls and AA9 on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd be happy with an Axx flop, or a 9xx flop, or a K-9-x flop, or a 224 flop, or .....basically a lot of flops. A9 will often be the best starting hand when it's folded to you in MP3. Open limping is obviously bad though since you do want to give yourself a chance to just "steal". But getting a caller or two is fine as well. You don't need to flop a moster to win.

[QTip]

So...would you prefer tight or loose players to your left? Would it make a difference in your decision to muck or openraise?

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
OK..this is making more sense now. So, when you open raise MP3 or later, you're basically trying to steal..correct...You're wanting to see 4 folds or 4 calls and AA9 on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are hoping to steal the blinds. If not, you hope to have it headsup on the flop and take it down with a single flop bet if Villian whiffs. Or, lastly, you catch a piece of the flop and bet away.

[spydog]

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So...would you prefer tight or loose players to your left? Would it make a difference in your decision to muck or openraise?

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You want tight players acting after you. If you have several loosies to your left, then it goes in the muck.

[chief444]

Yea...spydog beat me to it but tight would be better. I'd probably muck it with 2-3 loose players left. But if you can get is 2-3 ways on the flop it's not bad for you. A9 will probably win more often than you think even unimproved.

[QTip]

Thanks guys..appreciate the input.