Multi Book Forums

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

There has been requests to establish multi-book forums corresponding to different books. From the point of view of Two Plus Two Publishing LLC there are some drawbacks to this. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. So I'm going to kick it around for a few days and then we'll make a decision.

Best wishes,
Mason

[BradleyT]

Categorized book forums (NL, HE, Omaha, Tournaments) or specific titles (TOP, SSHE)?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Bradley:

The request is for titles.

best wishes,
Mason

[oreogod]

I can also see the draw backs as well (and Im with the request) -- as if you have a question or a looking for a response (and we all know how some people love the search function) it might be a little cluttered trying to find it.

If its managed well from the start it could work, u would probably want to post some rules on a sticky though, like have a general book forum...and if someone has a question, point them to the appropraite book thread.

The only thing is, to get a question answered, u need traffic and while it would be nice to get something spefic up...a generalized book forum tends to get more questions answered and quickly...





Mason, ask the orcale. (There are two scenarios when Im thinking of David Sklansky...the one where he is all Iago like, hiding in the wings and curtains of the twoplustwo publishing office, or the one where he is dressed as the Orcale of Delphi, locked in a closet somewhere with a glowing orb, inhaling whatever gases are leakin up from the ground, and trance like, chanting probabilities...where publishing house interns guide gamblers with questions to him for gifts and money. Am I close??)

Anyway, maybe he can help. When u guys put your heads together (and even as independant entities) you guys seem to do overly okay in any situation. If it works for books, it can work for forums. By the way, I wonder what your company picknicks are like.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bradley:

The request is for titles.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always in favor of expanding the forum when it's needed, but I'm not a fan of this particular idea.

Honestly, I'm not sure there is enough traffic in the books forum to warrant so many new forums devoted soley to specific books.

It is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we're quite 'there' yet.

[wegs the wegs]

Now I still consider myself a newcomer to these forums but I have read the Books forum quite a bit over the last few months. Feel free to ignore me but I do not think that a forum for each individual book or any specific book would be a good idea.

It seems that the majority of the threads in the Book forum are people asking which book they should read to fit their game, which usually follows by seasoned pros telling them to check the search forum. While every now and then a good thread comes around discussing certain theories or opinions of specific authors. I feel that creating forums for individual 2+2 books would not be helpful for the redundant "What book should I read" question.

What I suggest on doing is splitting the book forum into two new forums. One would be a general "What should I read" forum (you guys work on the title). This would be the place where people can ask for opinions on books that they are thinking of reading or find a book that would fit them. The second forum would be geared toward book discussion, questioning the logic of the book, certain chapter breakdowns, and so on. This forum would be geared toward the people who have already read and studied the book and want to discuss it without wading through the "What is a good NL book?" threads.

So there you have it, my two cents. Take it or leave it.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bradley:

The request is for titles.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always in favor of expanding the forum when it's needed, but I'm not a fan of this particular idea.

Honestly, I'm not sure there is enough traffic in the books forum to warrant so many new forums devoted soley to specific books.

It is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we're quite 'there' yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

As so often, AngryCola takes the words from my mouth.

[daveymck]

I think it would be better to have either sticky threads for the main books discussed or a main sticky thread with links to the main past discussions on the main books that are discussed would be better. Over splitting of this forum to me would be madness and dilute the discussions.

For example a WLLHE forum most of us would not click on it and so newbies or others who may have valid new questions or looking for advice may well either not get it or be given it by those fans of the books who may not know or understand the flaws within it.

I dont think it will work and will reduce the quality of the forum.

[TylerD]

Too disjointed, bad idea IMO.

[theghost]

Seems like categories would make more sense than having an entire forum dedicated to a single title.

[jdl22]

I think it's a bad idea. Splitting the Books/Software into books and software was a good move. Now this forum won't be overcrowded. What good would it be to have a forum for each book which gets 2 posts a month?

I think a more helpful thing would be to make your book reviews stickied at the top. This would stop the redundant questions. I would also be in favor and willing to write a FAQ though you said you were opposed to that at some point in the past.

[PuckNPoker]

Some forum software has the ability to create "subforums" but the post for those subforums go into parent forum as well (it isnt dual posted, just pointers to the same thread). So if I want all the posts for HoH I could go into the HoH subforum and just read those posts, but if I want to read the general discussion I can go into the Books forum (which would still contain all the HoH posts, among others). I have no idea if this is possible with UBB.

I can see the attraction of having a title only forum, but I think to keep it going longterm it would need more readers/posters that a general forum would provide.

[Nagoo81]

Alternatively to more forums or sub-forums under the main book forum (which, I am heavily in favor for) I think the use of pinned/stickies posts are absolutely needed to inform the new posters about:

1)Is SSHE worth it?
2)Is pokertracker worth it? (now under the software forum)
3)Is Super System I/II worth it?
4)Are there any No-limit cash game books?
5)Is McEvoy/Cloutier book good?
6)Is SSHE worth it?
7)Can I read SSHE for my crochet class?

etc etc etc

[Benal]

Nay

[jar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bradley:

The request is for titles.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always in favor of expanding the forum when it's needed, but I'm not a fan of this particular idea.

Honestly, I'm not sure there is enough traffic in the books forum to warrant so many new forums devoted soley to specific books.

It is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we're quite 'there' yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

As so often, AngryCola takes the words from my mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also agree. I think a sticky with links to the past book club discussions would be quite helpful.

[pastabatman]

I'm for it. As I said here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1792769&Forum =,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=17 64063&Search=true&where=&Name=14615&daterange=&new erval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#P ost1792769), having to dig through a humonogous thread to see if your question/comment has already been addressed is a major pain. A response from the author or publisher to a specific question is a valuable thing that should be preserved and readily accessible, not buried in some old thread. I would much prefer to navigate to a dedicated forum and peruse discussions about a specific chapter.

Sure, these won't be the most traffic'd forums - so what? What's there should be pretty meaty. And, as I said in the other thread, I would support these forums being very tightly controlled, with rants and rat-holes deleted with extreme prejudice. This would make them more useful as a reference for us, and more useful for 2+2 as a promotional tool.

I do like the feature described above, whereby a thread could be linked into both a general forum and a specific title forum.

Pasta

[skp]

UGH...brutal idea

What next? Different forums for 15-30 and 20-40 hands? Different forums for flop, turn, and river decisions?

This place has way too many forums already. Just my opinion obviously.

[PuckNPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
UGH...brutal idea

What next? Different forums for 15-30 and 20-40 hands? Different forums for flop, turn, and river decisions?

This place has way too many forums already. Just my opinion obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

More forums introduced at the right time and regulated in a smart way promote strong growth to a successful BBS, Without new forums, a successful site growth stagnates somewhat (the wheat and chaff mix too much). I think a site like AVS Forums, which started off very small and grew into a uber forum beast you see today is a good model. RGP is a a (worst case) example where too much success can destroy a newsgroup and/or BBS.

On its own this "Each book has its own forum" has some merit, but execution is tricky. If the BBS software is advanced enough I think you can have your cake and eat it too. But in the end, the technical details might be too much to overcome to make it a clean implementation. And status quo for the forum isn't exactly horrible.

[UnderThe Gun]

"having to dig through a humonogous thread to see if your question/comment has already been addressed is a major pain. A response from the author or publisher to a specific question is a valuable thing that should be preserved and readily accessible, not buried in some old thread."

This is the real point of a book discussion. Why anyone would assume it has anything to do with how much traffic a forum or thread gets is beyond me.

Can anyone explain?

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
UGH...brutal idea

[/ QUOTE ]

co-signed

[UnderThe Gun]

Maybe it's just me, but I get the impression that most of the people who are against this idea are people who have little or no interest in participating in the discussions, anyway.

What possible difference can a few additional forums or threads make? If you're going to have these discussions at all, how can it possibly be better to just throw everything into one thread?

The only negative I can see is for those who are just opposed to discussing the book at all and see this as a step in the wrong direction or those who view 2+2 as a "chat" site and don't want the "chat" diluted by parsing it into too many sub-topics.

If you have a substantive thought about a book, looking in a dedicated forum isn't going to be a problem. If, on the other hand, all you want is to make sure you don't miss the latest update on Jennicide's next boyfriend ...well, I guess I can see why you might be concerned.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bradley:

The request is for titles.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always in favor of expanding the forum when it's needed, but I'm not a fan of this particular idea.

Honestly, I'm not sure there is enough traffic in the books forum to warrant so many new forums devoted soley to specific books.

It is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we're quite 'there' yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bohemian]

I think it's a great idea.

[Scotch78]

What about a sticky that lists standardized abbreviations for the common books and establishes a standard of titling posts like this: "SSHE: ####", "TOP: YYYYY", "HOH: ZZZ"? If followed, such a standard would significantly improve search results.

Scott

[BluffTHIS!]

I have a question for Mason or Chuck regarding the programming of this forum and the alternate suggestions for sticky threads here on individual titles, although it could be used in other forum categories as well.

The question is: can an individual thread such as a sticky thread for such a purpose, be set so the the thread starts with the last post when you click on it and is thus last to first order? This would allow such a sticky post to have the most current posts more easily available when such threads could get very long.

[helpmeout]

This seems like an idea just to sell more 2+2 books because I doubt you are going to have a few hundred forums for every single poker book available. Maybe a book review section would make things a bit easier.

You would be better off adding a few more forums for different limits. Maybe a low limit/high limit HUSH forum, a middle limit forum for 5/10 and 10/20 (2/4 is way different from 10/20). You could also add a bad beat forum or other OT forums so people can quit posting this stuff in regular forums.

[Boltsfan1992]

Hiya -

I've read through the thread.

There may some players who just picked up a copy of the newest book [insert title here] who begin reading it. Then, in order to grasp the concept(s), they want a discussion about it. Some of us picked the same book, like years ago, and don't want to discuss it any further because it's a dead topic to them. Others point the new user to the search function for the archived discussion.

I understand the unwillingness to discuss a book that has been rehashed, but what about the new player who wants to generate a discussion, doesn't get any constructive feedback, and then considers another website discussion group? I have Harrington's book and the new Super/System book and have just begun reading them. Many of you have already devoured Harrington's book (SS2, not so sure /images/graemlins/smile.gif), and are eagerly anticipating volume two. The player that joins us in two weeks because that player just bought a 2 + 2 book for the first time I think would benefit of having a thread/forum to discuss the book they are trying to learn.

So, I think it's a good idea. I'm definitely in the minority though.

FWIW

PB

[djack]

I'm unlikely to ever read a forum dedicated to a single book. Maybe this is just me, but I imagine not.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
There has been requests to establish multi-book forums corresponding to different books. From the point of view of Two Plus Two Publishing LLC there are some drawbacks to this. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. So I'm going to kick it around for a few days and then we'll make a decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it but I sure was wrong about the TV forum /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Better idea: Given we no longer have a "Vince Lepore" forum why not try a "mike l." forum. Mike is even more neurotic and entertaining than Vince!

~ Rick

[PE101]

I think the split of the software topics to a different forum was a terrific idea, but I vote to keep the books together.

This is how you find out about new, good ones. I might not browse through 3 or 4 different forums, but I sure read this (at least I look at the topics) on a regular basis.

Just an opinion...

[Luv2DriveTT]

Too many forums already. I miss Software & Books being the same forum, it was easier before.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[cwsiggy]

I think just make a book discussion a sticky thread within book forum. Too many threads!! IMHO

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Bradley:

The request is for titles.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

NAY

[morgan180]

I think that there is more merit to discussing a book's recommendation in the specific forum already existing. If I have a question about SSHE concept I'll post it in the SSHE forum. If I have a HoHE question I'll post in MTT, etc. If you split them up you'll have some information in the book forum and some in the actual game forums and it will be even more disorganized than it is now.

I vote no.

[jasonHoldEm]

How about having the book forums on a different board that is linked to this one (i.e. bookserver.twoplustwo.com ). Stick a link <--- over there in the green forum list and presto.

J

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm always in favor of expanding the forum when it's needed, but I'm not a fan of this particular idea.

Honestly, I'm not sure there is enough traffic in the books forum to warrant so many new forums devoted soley to specific books.

It is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure we're quite 'there' yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too agree with this.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be better to have either sticky threads for the main books discussed or a main sticky thread with links to the main past discussions on the main books that are discussed would be better. Over splitting of this forum to me would be madness and dilute the discussions.

For example a WLLHE forum most of us would not click on it and so newbies or others who may have valid new questions or looking for advice may well either not get it or be given it by those fans of the books who may not know or understand the flaws within it.

I dont think it will work and will reduce the quality of the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best Idea. One or several threads that start with a summary of the book and its applications. Then links to pertinant discussions that have taken place in the past regarding it.

I too believe that there is not enought traffic to warrent separate forums on specific books.

Greg

[Easy E]

I think having people stumble across posts on all different books is much better.

Plus, the table of contents on the left is cluttered enough