Pot odds thoughts

[hagel666]

Hello.

Game Limit Texas Hold'em. I have some thoughts about pot odds and hands on flop with only 1-6 outs.

Most of these hands you only have odds to call on the flop and when the bet amount doubles on turn you usually don't have the right odds to call.

My thoughts are, shouldn't we calculate the pot odds based on only seeing the turn? The regular charts are based on turn and river to come, but you know you will only call the flop and then fold the turn if not improved because of the lack of pot odds.

As example, something like this:
4 outs regular: 16.5% 5.06 to 1 --> becomes --> 7.8% 11.82 to 1
5 outs regular: 20.3% 3.93 to 1 --> becomes --> 9.4% 9.64 to 1

What's your thoughts on this?

/Hagel.

[elmitchbo]

i don't think i would call it 'regular' to always use pot odds for the flop and the turn. i think most people will tell you to consider the odds of the next card as your primary figure. the odds of catching the turn or the river is more of an implied odds sort of thing. it's a useful piece of info, but i think you're wrong to call that the 'normal' or 'regular' way to estimate pot odds.

i also think it's incorrect to just assume you will fold after the turn. that's something that will vary from hand to hand. many times you will have the odds to call on the turn, or the turn gets checked around.

[hagel666]

I don't know if you want me to use regular, common, usual, ordinary or any other word, but that's exacly what the actual pot odds chart is. I didn't say it was regular to always use pot odds and follow the chart for the flop and the turn as you stated, I just said the chart was regular.

Every odds examples you find in books or here in the forums are usually the same odds and percentages you find in the pot odds chart I referred too. See the chart I'm talking about in Kriegers article at Cardplayer.com (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=13913).

I should say that my initial thought was that you know you are behind, but as an example you have a gutshot draw to the nut straight. For this scenario I just now set up a loose table in Wilson's Turbo Texas Hold'em software to test this out. I stacked the deck so that I had a gutshot draw (4 outs) to my straight every flop. I stopped after playing 20 hands because it was enough - it showed what I already knew. You usually have right odds to call the flop if you play by the odds "turn and river to come", but 18 of those 20 times I didn't get the right odds on the turn - and this with a very loose table with 5-8 players and 12-15 of the rounds with a pre-flop raise which means big pots.

Still, what I want to know is what you guys think about my question in the initial post, because I haven't seen much discussions about it in any books or forums.

Btw, I miscalculated in my first post, the examples should be:
4 outs regular: 16.5% 5.06 to 1 --> becomes --> 8.5% 10.75 to 1
5 outs regular: 20.3% 3.93 to 1 --> becomes --> 10.6% 8.4 to 1

/Hagel.