is this a good fold? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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tetonpete

02-22-2005, 10:13 PM

Should I fold this? Flop comments welcome as well
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

The-Matador

02-22-2005, 10:38 PM

Yes.

Kaz The Original

02-22-2005, 11:02 PM

Is this some sort of joke I don't understand? If you are serious, no. You should cap. I cap the river except against thinking opposition.

If this is a joke about you misreading your hand... "ha ha", thanks for wasting my time.

Chris Daddy Cool

02-22-2005, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this some sort of joke I don't understand? If you are serious, no. You should cap. I cap the river except against thinking opposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it ever came down to it, capping the river would be really really really bad.

sfwusc

02-22-2005, 11:28 PM

only JT and T6 beats him.

he has the straight

tetonpete

02-22-2005, 11:39 PM

The pot was still fairly small...i felt that if i was behind, I was drawing dead or to a split pot, and that i was no better than a split already. I don't see how two pair or even a thinking set could 3 bet here. In a bigger pot I'd call. But capping the sucker end of a one card dtraight seems pretty reckless.

sfwusc

02-22-2005, 11:44 PM

why did you fold the straight?

SWUSC

tetonpete

02-22-2005, 11:56 PM

well, two more questions... am i raised and 3 bet on this board by a set or worse, and if not, will i split the pot enough to times to call getting 7-1 (or worse if it's capped) plus reverse implied odds. I expected to have to put at least two more bets in on the river if i was behind.

I admit i sometimes see monsters where none exist...maybe this is bad leak

sfwusc

02-23-2005, 12:00 AM

Where they bad enough to limp with a six? Pair of sixes is unlikely you have one.

A6 maybe.

Maybe it is a leak for me, but i am getting a showdown unless i think someone has me. I dont think that here unless you have a read.

Hulk Hogan

02-23-2005, 12:03 AM

Of course it isn't!

tetonpete

02-23-2005, 12:15 AM

well, i admit i thought this might be more evenly split, but it looks like most of you would not have folded. I'm still not sure how I feel about it. if i continue, do i call or raise?

TripleH68

02-23-2005, 12:50 AM

Problem with this hand is the villain is unlikely to put you on the str8 after you check-raised the flop. When MP1 wakes up on the turn and it does not slow him down I am concerned if he is not normally this aggressive, but it is a very tough lay down considering JT is the only reasonable holding that beats you. If you are going to play, why not cap the turn?

Reads reads. You need reads.

tetonpete

02-23-2005, 12:54 AM

i know...i had no reads and should have mentioned that. I hadn't considered the read that mp1 would have gotten from my checkraise though. good point

shant

02-23-2005, 01:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...the sucker end of a one card straight...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not the sucker end. If you had 96 on a 789T board that would be the sucker end. For this to be the sucker end, your opponent needs to have 6T or JT.

tetonpete

02-23-2005, 01:08 AM

lol..as it turns out, it was only the sucker end because I had it
results
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has 6d Qd (straight, nine high).
MP2 has 6h 6s (straight, nine high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 7.75 BB. MP2 wins 7.75 BB.

The-Matador

02-23-2005, 01:13 AM

So you mean it *wasn't* a good fold when only two hands in the deck beat you??

I am shocked. SHOCKED! /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

tetonpete

02-23-2005, 01:22 AM

and all along here i thought you were with me

The-Matador

02-23-2005, 02:35 AM

Haha no sorry.

I actually thought this was a joke post when I first read it, to be honest. You just can't fold here when only a couple of hands beat you, but you know that by now.

Don't worry, you'll get em next time.

tetonpete

02-23-2005, 05:45 AM

no worries...to be honest, i think i put the 3better on 10J because I didn't want to believe that TWO of them could have a 6...66 never dawned on me. And I appreciate the opinions...I wish I could say that in the future this would be an easy call...but it's a harder cap and i hate to call...anyway, this will definitely help me fix what I think is a big leak...i.e. giving too much credit

sthief09

02-23-2005, 06:05 AM

you REALLY don't like being wrong

sthief09

02-23-2005, 06:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, you're not infallable. amazing

Nate tha' Great

02-23-2005, 06:18 AM

I don't think this is a bad fold.

Let's assume that one player has a straight. We can all agree that this is a safe assumption. Since he's not in a blind, we'll assume that he needs one of the following hands to make a straight:

A6s, A6o, K6s, Q6s, 86s, 76s, 65s, 64s
JTs, JTo

Let's assume that the second player also has a straight with one of the hands above, or he can have 98s (top two pair) or a set with 99, 88, 77 or 55.

According to Pokerstove, you have only around 13% equity against these hands. You're drawing totally dead to JT, which is a very commonly played hand by limpers at this limit. You're drawing to a 2- or 3-way split at best. There's also some chance that you're subject to a flush redraw on the river.

I think a fold is prudent. To borrow an Omaha term, you're getting quartered here.

sthief09

02-23-2005, 06:24 AM

the bettor could also have a lot of Jx hands, betting an OESD, or a flush draw+pair or flush draw+overs

but are you saying it's a good fold, or just saying it's not as bad as everyone's making it out to be?

Nate tha' Great

02-23-2005, 06:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the bettor could also have a lot of Jx hands, betting an OESD, or a flush draw+pair or flush draw+overs

but are you saying it's a good fold, or just saying it's not as bad as everyone's making it out to be?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think folding is the best play by a small margin.

sfwusc

02-23-2005, 10:45 AM

didnt I say 66 JT and A6 ones to worry about.

Take a note on Q6s guy.

SWUSC

PokerBob

02-23-2005, 10:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I fold this? Flop comments welcome as well
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure you can give mp2 credit for JT. Would he lead the flop with it?

Call the turn. Maybe cap it.

PokerBob

02-23-2005, 10:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this some sort of joke I don't understand? If you are serious, no. You should cap. I cap the river except against thinking opposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it ever came down to it, capping the river would be really really really bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen.