Is There a Bigger Jackass Than Barry Bonds?

[Utah]

Did anyone hear his press conference? What an ass.

I guess he doesnt like those challenging his greatness. doesnt he realize that everyone on the planet realizes he is full of crap? What planet is he living on?

[pshreck]

Agreed.

[Jack of Arcades]

Rick Reilly.

[James282]

What didn't you like about it? I thought he handled himself amazingly well. What more did you expect? I don't even really like Barry Bonds but I was totally on board with pretty much everything he said until I turned it off --- so unless he said something egregiously awful towards the end I don't think I missed much.
-James

[daryn]

it's kinda stupid how he is calling out reporters and saying "have you told lies in your life?" as if that is relevant.

[mostsmooth]

it was painfully obvious he wants to "move on and fix our problems" because he doesnt want to admit to the juice
barry, giambi said he was sorry, are you sorry? barry says "about what?"
please
give us a break
they should be asking him why he isnt suing the trainer for giving him illegal drugs without him knowing
they should ask him why he hasnt beaten the nuts off the trainer for endangering his health
ask him to explain why hes hit 250 hrs in a few years and it took him 3 or 4 times that to hit 450
they should ask him why hes such an ahole
that being said, i could care less if they did juice, just admit it when you get busted

[Edge34]

Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?

There is - just wrote a book. His name's Jose.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick Reilly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. His column gets so sentimentally gay sometimes I want to puke. Always talking about handicapped golfers and baseball stars who were beaten by their fathers. So annoying. Once in awhile he pumps out a nice article.

[Soul Daddy]

But he thought it was flaxseed oil...

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick Reilly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reilly is a douche, but it's not even close between him and Bonds for pure jackassery.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.modestyarbor.com/woreilly.jpg

[Voltron87]

Barry Bonds is a fraud, I hope he doesn't go down in the record books, he makes me sick.

[andyfox]

No.

[__Q__]

Reilly and jim rome are presently competing for worlds biggest Jackass.

Bond, on the other hand, is just the worlds biggest peice of [censored].

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
it's kinda stupid how he is calling out reporters and saying "have you told lies in your life?" as if that is relevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

It really shocked me that nobody stood up and yelled out "what the [censored] are you talking about you dumbass just answer the goddamn question!!!!"

[Fratony]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.modestyarbor.com/woreilly.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
DAMMIT! I was going to say that. He's by far the most ignorant a-hole i've ever seen on tv.

[Utah]

What are you talking about? OReilly is "lookin out for you". Can Bonds say that?

[Fratony]

If O'Reily is looking out for me, then i am screwed. He's delerious to the world. This article by Maddox, probably the coolest guy ever, pretty much sums up my feelings for him:
If you have time read this entire site, lots of fantastic opinions. (http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly)

[Edge34]

The only thing sadder than Maddox is the sheer number of people who somehow have convinced themselves that he's funny.

[Fratony]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing sadder than Maddox is the sheer number of people who somehow have convinced themselves that he's funny.

[/ QUOTE ]
What IS funny then? I dont think i have come across anything you replied to that you thought was funny. Cheer up bro. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jesusarenque]

Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[Prof. Chaos]

why are people more outraged over Barry than Jose???????? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[The-Matador]

*wheeze*

[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
why are people more outraged over Barry than Jose????????

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, just maybe, because Bonds is arguably the greatest player ever while Jose is a complete joke. Just a guess.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are people more outraged over Barry than Jose????????

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, just maybe, because Bonds is arguably the greatest player ever while Jose is a complete joke. Just a guess.

[/ QUOTE ]so thats makes people hate him more???? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[jason_t]

You are a bigger j[/i]ackass than Barry Bonds.

[Emmitt2222]

[ QUOTE ]
Is There a Bigger Jackass Than Barry Bonds?

[/ QUOTE ]
No

I always hated Bonds just because of the swagger he has, he's too cocky but people thought that was a stupid reason to hate him, so now I am just all the more justified when I call him an ass.

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
You are a bigger j[/i]ackass than Barry Bonds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Victory is mine!

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are people more outraged over Barry than Jose????????

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, just maybe, because Bonds is arguably the greatest player ever while Jose is a complete joke. Just a guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

All it would take for me is for Bonds to say "I don't think the fans are complete morons, and I am not trying to blame the media. I used steriods and I had my reasons."

That's all. But when he acts like this some big [censored] conspiracy when he is on the crusp of breaking one of the biggest records in sports, he comes off like an ass. Perhaps he should realize that the fans and media may want to know if he did by using steriods.

[Jack of Arcades]

Agreed. They keep asking the same question after he said he wouldn't answer it. It's not that he's dodging the questions, it's that he'd be an idiot to answer them given the current legal situation. It'd be like a murder suspect answering questions about the case.

BTW, I've never heard of Bonds being disrespectful to fans. And I've always felt he's been misunderstood - he's just brutally straightforward in interviews (none of the Bull Durham cliches, etc). I admire him, he's definitely my favorite baseball player, and whether he used steroids or not, he's one of the best to ever play the game.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[jesusarenque]

Bonds would be much more popular if he were white. Arrogant? There is no WAY he is more arrogant/full of himself than Curt Schilling. Now THERE is a jackass.

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of his former teammates have come out and said he cheated, either.

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of his former teammates have come out and said he cheated, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why?

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of his former teammates have come out and said he cheated, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I find these two answers to be the most probable:

1. He didn't use
2. His teammates like him and don't want to rat him out

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of his former teammates have come out and said he cheated, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I find these two answers to be the most probable:

1. He didn't use
2. His teammates like him and don't want to rat him out

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh lol. Lol indeed.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of his former teammates have come out and said he cheated, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I find these two answers to be the most probable:

1. He didn't use
2. His teammates like him and don't want to rat him out

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh lol. Lol indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good comeback. I see why you are so respected on this forum.

[wonderwes]

Weight of Barry Bonds' head = 24.68 lbs.

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is ample proof that he cheated. It is in sealed grand jury testimony. If you don't believe he cheated, you could likely be convinced that the earth is flat.

His teammates despise him, and this has been chronicled by many sportswriters. Notice how not one of them has ever lept to his defence? Not a single one.

He is a total dick to the fans. I have been at about 12 Giants games and seen how he treats the fans. It's basically like they don't exist for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of his former teammates have come out and said he cheated, either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I find these two answers to be the most probable:

1. He didn't use
2. His teammates like him and don't want to rat him out

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh lol. Lol indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good comeback. I see why you are so respected on this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe in Santa too?

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why are people more outraged over Barry than Jose????????

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, just maybe, because Bonds is arguably the greatest player ever while Jose is a complete joke. Just a guess.

[/ QUOTE ]so thats makes people hate him more???? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

More people care what the future career HR record-holder does than care what some washed up bum does. Seems self-explanatory.

Now I see how you manage to make so many posts TSC. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even Lasorda?

[The Dude]

Aside from Roger Clemens, no.

[adios]

Looks like steroids are making his head bigger. I liked the part where he stated that he didn't know how steroids would help someone's hitting. All doubts about Bonds and steroid use were removed if anyone had any IMO.

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is a fraud, I hope he doesn't go down in the record books, he makes me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, for God's sake, please THINK OF THE CHILDREN.....

seriously, are you guys freakin' kidding me?.......I agree with Bonds when he asks "What is everyone so up in arms about?".....is this heated emotion really all about the "purity of the game"?.....steriods, media friendliness, head size - who f'n cares?....

does the guy use steriods?.....sure, maybe, so what?.....this is an absolute non-issue to me as a passionate baseball fan.....I don't give a rat's ass about Babe Ruth or anyone else in the record books who played a hundred years ago.....I never saw Babe play, I have no idea what kind of person he was, I don't care what kind of person he was, the game of baseball was completely different then (and foreign to me), sports medicine and general technology was completely different then, athletes may or may not have used substances that affected their play and may have used more if they were available.....they all played with the same privy to outside advantages and disadvantages - as do players now - and it makes very little difference what kind of overall ballplayer one is....where someone draws the line between taking "steriods" (THE CHILDREN!) and someone being on a super hi-tech regime of diet, supplements, creatine, state-of-the-art muscle-isolating techniques (WHAT A DEDICATED GUY) is negligible.....

bottom line?.....whatever Bonds chooses to do with his body is his perogative....everyone has the same opportunity (and many choose to incur the relative health risks associated with any kind of professional athlete regime) and not everyone plays baseball like Barry Bonds....comparing records and players now to anything in the game of baseball a century ago is just stupid and illogical.....why would I care about anything other than my enjoyment of the game now?.....

and anyone who watches baseball day in and day out can plainly see that Barry Bonds is absolutely amazing.....in a pure class of his own as a ballplayer and there is no asterisk, no conspiracy, no nothing to it other than that.....the guy will get like two pitches in an entire game thrown to him that are even remotely near the strike zone and he'll hit one or sometimes both of them out of the yard....it's pure poetry to watch him play baseball - and that's what I care about as a baseball fan......I don't give a flying sh!t if he's black, white, racist, angry, media-hating, roid-raging, fan-friendly, big-headed (pun intended), etc......he's the best baseball player that ever played.....he didn't dominate his peers the way Ruth did because the mean level of play is far better now (due in large part to resources of all kinds including larger sample groups and sports medicine), but he's better than Ruth ever was......why are people so insecure that they get more emotional, opinionated, judgemental. and charged-up by asking "Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?" as opposed to "Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[ClaytonN]

is jesusarenque your sixth account on this forum, Matador?

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
but he's better than Ruth ever was......

[/ QUOTE ]
thats a joke, right?
well, i take that back,bonds on juice IS better than ruth ever was(but i still have never seen bonds pitch)
take away the juice and theres no comparison

[BadBoyBenny]

Yes.

Here's a few, bu there are hundreds more I could think of.

1.) BadBoyBeny
2.) UBL
3.) Marck Rich
4.) Kim Jong Ill
5.) James Dobson
6.) AL Sharpton
7.) One dude who used to ref my high school soccer games.
8.) Half the renecks in the town I grew up in
9.) Betuzzi
10.) Canseco
11.) Dennis Kozlowski

Bond's is a jerk in interviews, and that's just part of his I'm not a role model, and I don't need to answer all your quetions mentatiliy.

The list could go on and on. Bonds comes off like a jerk. My disclaimer is that when I was 10, after a Pirates game, Bonds actually took a time to autograph a ball for me after a game even though he was being mobbed by dozens of drumken idiots, (one who jumped on the roof of his car to keep him from leavng the parkig lot.

Please don't discuss my political choices, this is not the forum, I know many will have stong feling of agreement/disagreement on those.

Alos note that I think the steriod use is the one thing that help baseball regain it popularity over the last 5-10 years.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is the man. Just because he doesn't kiss the media's ass doesn't make him a jackass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see ...

he's disrespectful to the fans
he's disrespectful to his teammates
he's a cheater

yep, I'd say that makes him a jackass

[/ QUOTE ]

He is absolutely NOT disrespectful to the fans. By all accounts he is very friendly to fans at the park.

His teammates (other than Jeff Kent when he played) like him.

There is little to no proof that he has cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please. Stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
...they all played with the same privy to outside advantages and disadvantages - as do players now - and it makes very little difference what kind of overall ballplayer one is....where someone draws the line between taking "steriods" (THE CHILDREN!) and someone being on a super hi-tech regime of diet, supplements, creatine, state-of-the-art muscle-isolating techniques (WHAT A DEDICATED GUY) is negligible.....

bottom line?.....whatever Bonds chooses to do with his body is his perogative....everyone has the same opportunity (and many choose to incur the relative health risks associated with any kind of professional athlete regime) and not everyone plays baseball like Barry Bonds...

[/ QUOTE ]
you realize steroids are illegal, right? so its not a matter of "everyone has the same opportunity", some players dont want to break laws, let alone possibly hurt their body.

[mostsmooth]

he said he doesnt think steroids helps a player? then why did he do it?

fwiw, i was talking to a former mlb player today, he said there were many many players using steroids when he was playing, including himself.

[sublime]

you = moron

[ QUOTE ]
he said he doesnt think steroids helps a player? then why did he do it?

fwiw, i was talking to a former mlb player today, he said there were many many players using steroids when he was playing, including himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rusty Staub?

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he said he doesnt think steroids helps a player? then why did he do it?

fwiw, i was talking to a former mlb player today, he said there were many many players using steroids when he was playing, including himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rusty Staub?

[/ QUOTE ]
how the hell did you figure that out?!?!?!?
oh wait, it wasnt him

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]
bottom line?.....whatever Bonds chooses to do with his body is his perogative....everyone has the same opportunity (and many choose to incur the relative health risks associated with any kind of professional athlete regime) and not everyone plays baseball like Barry Bonds

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I make money by selling drugs, that's ok? It's my prerogative. Everyone else can do it if they so choose. We'll just ignore the fact that it's illegal.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is a fraud, I hope he doesn't go down in the record books, he makes me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, for God's sake, please THINK OF THE CHILDREN.....

seriously, are you guys freakin' kidding me?.......I agree with Bonds when he asks "What is everyone so up in arms about?".....is this heated emotion really all about the "purity of the game"?.....steriods, media friendliness, head size - who f'n cares?....

does the guy use steriods?.....sure, maybe, so what?.....this is an absolute non-issue to me as a passionate baseball fan.....I don't give a rat's ass about Babe Ruth or anyone else in the record books who played a hundred years ago.....I never saw Babe play, I have no idea what kind of person he was, I don't care what kind of person he was, the game of baseball was completely different then (and foreign to me), sports medicine and general technology was completely different then, athletes may or may not have used substances that affected their play and may have used more if they were available.....they all played with the same privy to outside advantages and disadvantages - as do players now - and it makes very little difference what kind of overall ballplayer one is....where someone draws the line between taking "steriods" (THE CHILDREN!) and someone being on a super hi-tech regime of diet, supplements, creatine, state-of-the-art muscle-isolating techniques (WHAT A DEDICATED GUY) is negligible.....

bottom line?.....whatever Bonds chooses to do with his body is his perogative....everyone has the same opportunity (and many choose to incur the relative health risks associated with any kind of professional athlete regime) and not everyone plays baseball like Barry Bonds....comparing records and players now to anything in the game of baseball a century ago is just stupid and illogical.....why would I care about anything other than my enjoyment of the game now?.....

and anyone who watches baseball day in and day out can plainly see that Barry Bonds is absolutely amazing.....in a pure class of his own as a ballplayer and there is no asterisk, no conspiracy, no nothing to it other than that.....the guy will get like two pitches in an entire game thrown to him that are even remotely near the strike zone and he'll hit one or sometimes both of them out of the yard....it's pure poetry to watch him play baseball - and that's what I care about as a baseball fan......I don't give a flying sh!t if he's black, white, racist, angry, media-hating, roid-raging, fan-friendly, big-headed (pun intended), etc......he's the best baseball player that ever played.....he didn't dominate his peers the way Ruth did because the mean level of play is far better now (due in large part to resources of all kinds including larger sample groups and sports medicine), but he's better than Ruth ever was......why are people so insecure that they get more emotional, opinionated, judgemental. and charged-up by asking "Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?" as opposed to "Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

[Bulldog]

Barry Bonds is my favorite player. I love that he didn't sell out and put out a fake image to get Sprite commercials (Kobe). He's a baseball player. He works hard on his game, earns the money he makes, then goes home to his family. He doesn't want to answer the same questions 800 times each. I don't want to hear him answer them. If I never hear the word "steroids" again, that'll be fine with me. But since football is over, baseball hasn't started, hockey is extinct, and bball hasn't hit the tourney yet, something has to fill Joe Schmo's column or segments 2, 6, and 8 on SportsCenter.

Regarding claims of "proof" of Bonds' guilt, in the grand jury testimony I read, he admits to using "clear" and "cream" but not knowing they were performance-enhancing. He trusted a personal trainer who had been with him for years, which may have been bad judgement, but doesn't make him a cheater.

Barry, just keep hitting homeruns, laying off pitches out of the strike zone (because walks help your team win, as I'd think all math-brained poker players would understand), and telling the media to kiss your a$$.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is my favorite player. I love that he didn't sell out and put out a fake image to get Sprite commercials (Kobe). He's a baseball player. He works hard on his game, earns the money he makes, then goes home to his family. He doesn't want to answer the same questions 800 times each. I don't want to hear him answer them. If I never hear the word "steroids" again, that'll be fine with me. But since football is over, baseball hasn't started, hockey is extinct, and bball hasn't hit the tourney yet, something has to fill Joe Schmo's column or segments 2, 6, and 8 on SportsCenter.

Regarding claims of "proof" of Bonds' guilt, in the grand jury testimony I read, he admits to using "clear" and "cream" but not knowing they were performance-enhancing. He trusted a personal trainer who had been with him for years, which may have been bad judgement, but doesn't make him a cheater.

Barry, just keep hitting homeruns, laying off pitches out of the strike zone (because walks help your team win, as I'd think all math-brained poker players would understand), and telling the media to kiss your a$$.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is my favorite player. I love that he didn't sell out and put out a fake image to get Sprite commercials (Kobe). He's a baseball player. He works hard on his game, earns the money he makes, then goes home to his family. He doesn't want to answer the same questions 800 times each. I don't want to hear him answer them. If I never hear the word "steroids" again, that'll be fine with me. But since football is over, baseball hasn't started, hockey is extinct, and bball hasn't hit the tourney yet, something has to fill Joe Schmo's column or segments 2, 6, and 8 on SportsCenter.

Regarding claims of "proof" of Bonds' guilt, in the grand jury testimony I read, he admits to using "clear" and "cream" but not knowing they were performance-enhancing. He trusted a personal trainer who had been with him for years, which may have been bad judgement, but doesn't make him a cheater.

Barry, just keep hitting homeruns, laying off pitches out of the strike zone (because walks help your team win, as I'd think all math-brained poker players would understand), and telling the media to kiss your a$$.

[/ QUOTE ]
why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it? i seem to notice the media has gone away from giambi and sheffield pretty much since they acknowledged they used the stuff. maybe the media is just hounding him until he admits it?
and like i said before, if he truly didnt know the cream was a steroid, and now he knows that to be true, why isnt he taking some sort of legal action against the trainer? wouldnt you if that was the case? perhaps because he knew it all along?

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is my favorite player. I love that he didn't sell out and put out a fake image to get Sprite commercials (Kobe). He's a baseball player. He works hard on his game, earns the money he makes, then goes home to his family. He doesn't want to answer the same questions 800 times each. I don't want to hear him answer them. If I never hear the word "steroids" again, that'll be fine with me. But since football is over, baseball hasn't started, hockey is extinct, and bball hasn't hit the tourney yet, something has to fill Joe Schmo's column or segments 2, 6, and 8 on SportsCenter.

Regarding claims of "proof" of Bonds' guilt, in the grand jury testimony I read, he admits to using "clear" and "cream" but not knowing they were performance-enhancing. He trusted a personal trainer who had been with him for years, which may have been bad judgement, but doesn't make him a cheater.

Barry, just keep hitting homeruns, laying off pitches out of the strike zone (because walks help your team win, as I'd think all math-brained poker players would understand), and telling the media to kiss your a$$.

[/ QUOTE ]
why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it? i seem to notice the media has gone away from giambi and sheffield pretty much since they acknowledged they used the stuff. maybe the media is just hounding him until he admits it?
and like i said before, if he truly didnt know the cream was a steroid, and now he knows that to be true, why isnt he taking some sort of legal action against the trainer? wouldnt you if that was the case? perhaps because he knew it all along?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, one reason he isn't taking legal action against the trainer is that the trainer has been his best friend his entire life.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Barry Bonds is my favorite player. I love that he didn't sell out and put out a fake image to get Sprite commercials (Kobe). He's a baseball player. He works hard on his game, earns the money he makes, then goes home to his family. He doesn't want to answer the same questions 800 times each. I don't want to hear him answer them. If I never hear the word "steroids" again, that'll be fine with me. But since football is over, baseball hasn't started, hockey is extinct, and bball hasn't hit the tourney yet, something has to fill Joe Schmo's column or segments 2, 6, and 8 on SportsCenter.

Regarding claims of "proof" of Bonds' guilt, in the grand jury testimony I read, he admits to using "clear" and "cream" but not knowing they were performance-enhancing. He trusted a personal trainer who had been with him for years, which may have been bad judgement, but doesn't make him a cheater.

Barry, just keep hitting homeruns, laying off pitches out of the strike zone (because walks help your team win, as I'd think all math-brained poker players would understand), and telling the media to kiss your a$$.

[/ QUOTE ]
why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it? i seem to notice the media has gone away from giambi and sheffield pretty much since they acknowledged they used the stuff. maybe the media is just hounding him until he admits it?
and like i said before, if he truly didnt know the cream was a steroid, and now he knows that to be true, why isnt he taking some sort of legal action against the trainer? wouldnt you if that was the case? perhaps because he knew it all along?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, one reason he isn't taking legal action against the trainer is that the trainer has been his best friend his entire life.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh i see, so this best friend for his entire life never told him it was juice, just fed him some illegal substance and didnt care about the consequences barry would face?
makes sense

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
Barry Bonds is my favorite player. I love that he didn't sell out and put out a fake image to get Sprite commercials (Kobe). He's a baseball player. He works hard on his game, earns the money he makes, then goes home to his family. He doesn't want to answer the same questions 800 times each. I don't want to hear him answer them. If I never hear the word "steroids" again, that'll be fine with me. But since football is over, baseball hasn't started, hockey is extinct, and bball hasn't hit the tourney yet, something has to fill Joe Schmo's column or segments 2, 6, and 8 on SportsCenter.

Regarding claims of "proof" of Bonds' guilt, in the grand jury testimony I read, he admits to using "clear" and "cream" but not knowing they were performance-enhancing. He trusted a personal trainer who had been with him for years, which may have been bad judgement, but doesn't make him a cheater.

Barry, just keep hitting homeruns, laying off pitches out of the strike zone (because walks help your team win, as I'd think all math-brained poker players would understand), and telling the media to kiss your a$$.

[/ QUOTE ]
why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it? i seem to notice the media has gone away from giambi and sheffield pretty much since they acknowledged they used the stuff. maybe the media is just hounding him until he admits it?
and like i said before, if he truly didnt know the cream was a steroid, and now he knows that to be true, why isnt he taking some sort of legal action against the trainer? wouldnt you if that was the case? perhaps because he knew it all along?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, one reason he isn't taking legal action against the trainer is that the trainer has been his best friend his entire life.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh i see, so this best friend for his entire life never told him it was juice, just fed him some illegal substance and didnt care about the consequences barry would face?
makes sense

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say that. I said that the fact that the trainer is Bonds's friend is the reason why he hasn't taken legal action against him.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only did Babe Ruth only compete against whites, but he also did not compete against relief specialists. Give Ruth an asterisk!

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been many, many great non-white pitchers in Bonds's career.

[Utah]

I saw him last night on ESPN giving his take on the Miracle on Ice.

He was a major buzz kill and spent half the time downplaying the significance. He then spent a few minutes subtly bashing president Bush.

Bashing the Miracle on Ice and then trying to tie in a political agenda? Yeah, that might make you a bigger jackass then Barry Bonds.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
he's the best baseball player that ever played.....he didn't dominate his peers the way Ruth did because the mean level of play is far better now (due in large part to resources of all kinds including larger sample groups and sports medicine), but he's better than Ruth ever was..

[/ QUOTE ]

What is Barry Bond's careeer pitching record? How many innings has he pitched in the World Series? Anyone that tries to say Babe Ruth wasn't the best player ever needs to read a book or two.

RR

[BeerMoney]

I kinda like a guy who will give different answers, be a different person. I like Ricky Williams too.

It seems like everyone complains when all athletes do is give trite remarks and cliches. then, when you have someone who speaks his mind, no one can handle it. Look at someone like Nomar.. Any interview was "ya, we gotta get out there and get things done, score more runs than they do next time, and I think we'll like the result." Great, thanks.

Bonds is a dick, but he's always stuck by being a dick, cause he wanted to. I respect that.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]

why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically what everyone told Pete Rose to do and he got crucified once he did.

[Utah]

Yes, but now it is old news and people love to forgive. Rose is in a far better spot today then he was before he told. He can now repair his reputation if he so chooses.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but now it is old news and people love to forgive. Rose is in a far better spot today then he was before he told. He can now repair his reputation if he so chooses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally disagree. I think public opinion is significantly more against Rose than it was before the book. But that's just a perception thing, so I don't know how to really quanitfy it other than anecdotally.

Besides that, Rose is clearly a social misfit. Everything he's done to this point was to try and repair his reputation in order to get into the Hall and he's failed miserably. I don't see how he can suddenly become better at that.

[Utah]

"I totally disagree. I think public opinion is significantly more against Rose than it was before the book."

The anger came out, but I dont think he is anymore disliked because everyone already knew what he was going to say. You dont here Rose talked about anymore. It is yesterday's story.

"Besides that, Rose is clearly a social misfit."

Yes, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have the opportunity. The public loves redemption. It would be relatively easy for him to repair his reputation.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have the opportunity. The public loves redemption. It would be relatively easy for him to repair his reputation.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was, he'd have done it already. It's clearly all he wants out of life at this point.

[The Stranger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.modestyarbor.com/woreilly.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

He is a jackass, but not even the biggest jackass on the Fox News Channel.

http://images.bestwebbuys.com/muze/books/70/0060723270.jpg

[andyfox]

He's got entitlement disease.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically what everyone told Pete Rose to do and he got crucified once he did.

[/ QUOTE ]
im cant recall that, so i cant agree or disagree. one thing is for sure i think, gambling on games as the manager/player is worse than taking steroids as a player, no?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there a bigger jackass than Barry Bonds?


[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.modestyarbor.com/woreilly.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

He is a jackass, but not even the biggest jackass on the Fox News Channel.

http://images.bestwebbuys.com/muze/books/70/0060723270.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

You calling a guy who's previous job was as a shill for professional wrestling a jackass?

[The Stranger]

http://www.mix941fm.com/_Admin/_ImgUploads/M_Seacrest%20PR%20Photo.jpg

[andyfox]

"No" was probably incorrect. I'm sure there are, and have been, bigger jackasses, Bonds is in the public eye just now. "Not many" would have been more accurate.

Lots of other great baseball players were major league jackasses. Ty Cobb probably tops the list, but Ted Williams, Rogers Hornsby and Mickey Mantle surely deserve honorable mention. Williams, of course, distinguished himself with his service to his country, and Mantle was graceful, gracious, brave and contrite in the months leading up to his death. One hopes Bonds mellows in time. There's no hope for Lasorda, but he's a small fish.

[andyfox]

The outcry against Rose since his book has mostly been from ex-ballplayers, especially those who have a say in his possible inclusion in the HOF. Many who had favored his admission before his admission (I like that phrase) are now against letting him in.

As long as Rose denied betting on baseball, there were those who, unfamiliar with the evidence, gave him the benefit of the doubt. Even some familiar with it, such as Bill James, refused to believe it. Now not only is Rose seen as a gambler who bet on baseball, but as a liar who made all his defenders seem silly.

I think Rose is incapable of repairing his reputation. He's too arrogant.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
He's got entitlement disease.

[/ QUOTE ]

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been many, many great non-white pitchers in Bonds's career.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, ill open myself up here, name 5 GREAT non white pitchers in the nl during his career

[mostsmooth]

btw, what sports was he planning on crushing in the 18th century?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i don't have much to add to this thread except that barry is my favorite player and that i met him once and he was nice to me. and i think he's one of the top players ever and that we should all be grateful to have watched him play and be amazed by what he does on the field instead of bickering over this issue.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

why cant he just tell the media he used x and x and be done with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's basically what everyone told Pete Rose to do and he got crucified once he did.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, what a lot of people are saying here, is that Bonds should just say this and that and he will be forgiven / possibly respected. But I have to agree with Clarkmeister here, and here's why.

Peter Rose lost respect because people realized that his book and statements were nothing more than attempts at profit and improvement of his own life. He was not actually sorry, and as dumb as the mass of American fans can be, we could tell.

The same is with Bonds. I think is image isn't really repairable, because in my opinion, he doesn't think he's done anything wrong, and I think most of us know that. If down the line he admits, or makes some sorry story out of the whole thing, I don't think the public will buy it, the same as Rose.

My point is, the public doesn't dislike Bonds because he's not admitting and asking for forgiveness. The public dislikes him because they think he's a jerk that doesn't care what we think about him or about cheating. There is not many verbal actions he can make to change that now.

[wayabvpar]

Bonds is a lying, cheating, arrogant scumbag. I seriously hope he gets beaned in his giant, steroid-inflated head during spring training and is unable to play ever again.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been many, many great non-white pitchers in Bonds's career.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, ill open myself up here, name 5 GREAT non white pitchers in the nl during his career

[/ QUOTE ]

I will. But first let us also consider that the entire pool of players from which to select the top 700 or so is far larger, even proportionally, than the pool of players that Ruth's 250 peers were selected from. So aside from the pitchers, there are tall first basemen, speedy middle infielders, and extra-base hit-robbing outfielders that Ruth didn't have to contend with. And Ruth only had to learn how to hit against what, 40-60 pitchers a year instead of 200+ that Barry might face.

Having said that, here is the requested list:

Pedro Martinez
Dwight Gooden
Fernando Valenzuela
Lee Smith
Dennis Martinez

I'll concede that it's not the most impressive list, but let's put it up against the five best non-white pictures from the American League, 1914-1935...

[jon593]

it would have been nice if he actually answered a [censored] question instead of blaming everything on the media when it is extremely obvious he did roids

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been many, many great non-white pitchers in Bonds's career.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, ill open myself up here, name 5 GREAT non white pitchers in the nl during his career

[/ QUOTE ]

I will. But first let us also consider that the entire pool of players from which to select the top 700 or so is far larger, even proportionally, than the pool of players that Ruth's 250 peers were selected from. So aside from the pitchers, there are tall first basemen, speedy middle infielders, and extra-base hit-robbing outfielders that Ruth didn't have to contend with. And Ruth only had to learn how to hit against what, 40-60 pitchers a year instead of 200+ that Barry might face.

Having said that, here is the requested list:

Pedro Martinez
Dwight Gooden
Fernando Valenzuela
Lee Smith
Dennis Martinez

I'll concede that it's not the most impressive list, but let's put it up against the five best non-white pictures from the American League, 1914-1935...

[/ QUOTE ]
doesnt matter, the point is that bonds isnt facing anything scary just because non whites are allowed to play
lee smith? dennis martinez? cmon

[apd138]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been many, many great non-white pitchers in Bonds's career.

[/ QUOTE ]
ok, ill open myself up here, name 5 GREAT non white pitchers in the nl during his career

[/ QUOTE ]

I will. But first let us also consider that the entire pool of players from which to select the top 700 or so is far larger, even proportionally, than the pool of players that Ruth's 250 peers were selected from. So aside from the pitchers, there are tall first basemen, speedy middle infielders, and extra-base hit-robbing outfielders that Ruth didn't have to contend with. And Ruth only had to learn how to hit against what, 40-60 pitchers a year instead of 200+ that Barry might face.

Having said that, here is the requested list:

Pedro Martinez
Dwight Gooden
Fernando Valenzuela
Lee Smith
Dennis Martinez

I'll concede that it's not the most impressive list, but let's put it up against the five best non-white pictures from the American League, 1914-1935...

[/ QUOTE ]
doesnt matter, the point is that bonds isnt facing anything scary just because non whites are allowed to play
lee smith? dennis martinez? cmon

[/ QUOTE ] Also I could be wrong but wasn't it blacks who were not allowed to play, meaning that Pedro Martinez etc would have been allowed back then anyway? I will admit I am not sure of this and it could just be a stupid assumption.

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]

So if I make money by selling drugs, that's ok? It's my prerogative. Everyone else can do it if they so choose. We'll just ignore the fact that it's illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to get into an ethical debate, but my answer to your question is yes, I consider it to be fine. This is a GAMBLING forum, right?...

[Jack of Arcades]

A few things.

1) Dennis Martinez and Lee Smith were both very good, near hall of famers.
2) It's not just Barry Bonds facing non-white pitchers. It's Bonds facing non-white defenders (quick, name some of the best defenders of all time. Ozzie Smith. Pudge Rodriguez. Willie Mays) and, by comparison, non-white hitters. How much more impressive would Bonds's accomplishments be without guys like Mays and Aaron before him, and guys like Pujols and Beltre in his own league? It's much easier to dominate a league that isn't drawing from its whole talent pool.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

[/ QUOTE ]
which barry, juice or no juice?

[/ QUOTE ]

He had 3 MVPs before he was 30. He went 40/40 in this time. He won several gold gloves. He was pretty freaking good before he ever hit 73 home runs.
-James

[cyberSTACK]

Well said.

[Utah]

That may be true. However, he has a chance now that there are no more secrets (I guess).

People just love a great redemption story. Hell, even Nixon repaired his reputation to a big degree. I agree that Rose is probably too stupid and arrogant to do the right thing.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't have much to add to this thread except that barry is my favorite player and that i met him once and he was nice to me. and i think he's one of the top players ever and that we should all be grateful to have watched him play and be amazed by what he does on the field instead of bickering over this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a key point. Baseball is an entertainment medium. Nothing more, nothing less. Barry Bonds, or any professional athlete, does not owe us anything. He doesn't need to answer our questions about any part of his life. He has no obligation to be nice to you at the ball park(even though he most certainly is). He has no obligation to "be nice to the media," which, unlike the fans, is not even a customer of his organization. He is an entertainer. If he doesn't entertain you, then don't pay attention to him. I love sports, and follow them as or more closely than probably 99% of the world - but I find people's need to insert themselves into the personal lives of professional entertainers laughable at best.
-James

[Jack of Arcades]

He said he doesn't see how Steroids would physically help someone hit the ball. IE, hand-eye coordination.

If you look at the statistics, Barry's HR numbers are pretty-consistent 1996-on, with a slight jump in 2000, a spike in 2001, and then his HRs return to 2000 levels.

Bonds's HR increase comes at the same time as his walk increase.

"Well, duh, Jack. No one's pitching to him."

Well, not exactly. Bonds has amazing eyesight and pitch recognition, as well as a very short and compact swing that allow him a slightly longer window than most to decide where the pitch will end up. If it's to his liking, he can unleash hell on a baseball.

Maybe steroids help shorten his swing. I dunno. It wouldn't surprise me. But you misquoted him, he mentioned hand-eye coordination - the actual physical act of coming into contact with the baseball. Bonds has an amazing ability to do that - along with Gary Sheffield and Albert Pujols - because he strikes out rarely.

Whatever. Bonds is an amazing player, just look at his 1992 season. Better than Albert's ever done, that's for sure.

[Bulldog]

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"Is there a better baseball player than Barry Bonds?".....

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which barry, juice or no juice?

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Other than Babe Ruth, I think the answer is "no" either way.

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Because the Babe could pitch, too, I'd say he is the best baseball PLAYER ever. Barry is the best HITTER ever. Of course, the Babe only competed against whites, so we'll never really know, huh?

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and of course theres been so many great black pitchers during bonds' career

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There have been many, many great non-white pitchers in Bonds's career.

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ok, ill open myself up here, name 5 GREAT non white pitchers in the nl during his career

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I will. But first let us also consider that the entire pool of players from which to select the top 700 or so is far larger, even proportionally, than the pool of players that Ruth's 250 peers were selected from. So aside from the pitchers, there are tall first basemen, speedy middle infielders, and extra-base hit-robbing outfielders that Ruth didn't have to contend with. And Ruth only had to learn how to hit against what, 40-60 pitchers a year instead of 200+ that Barry might face.

Having said that, here is the requested list:

Pedro Martinez
Dwight Gooden
Fernando Valenzuela
Lee Smith
Dennis Martinez

I'll concede that it's not the most impressive list, but let's put it up against the five best non-white pictures from the American League, 1914-1935...

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doesnt matter, the point is that bonds isnt facing anything scary just because non whites are allowed to play
lee smith? dennis martinez? cmon

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Don't dismiss Lee Smith.

But besides that, it's unfair to only list the BEST non-white pitchers Bonds has faced. For EVERY non-white pitcher in the league, if non-whites were banned, there would be a white pitcher of lesser talent in his place. It's not that the best pitchers faced were better or worse. It's that, ON THE WHOLE, Bonds faced better pitchers than Ruth.

[coltrane]

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This is a key point. Baseball is an entertainment medium. Nothing more, nothing less. Barry Bonds, or any professional athlete, does not owe us anything. He doesn't need to answer our questions about any part of his life. He has no obligation to be nice to you at the ball park(even though he most certainly is). He has no obligation to "be nice to the media," which, unlike the fans, is not even a customer of his organization. He is an entertainer. If he doesn't entertain you, then don't pay attention to him. I love sports, and follow them as or more closely than probably 99% of the world - but I find people's need to insert themselves into the personal lives of professional entertainers laughable at best.
-James

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yup.....and it is that exact reason that I don't have a problem with steriods.....I want to see the highest quality entertainment - the most competitive possible baseball....and if athletes are willing to incur health risks (which most do anyway - with or without just "steriods") to rise to a higher level of competition , it's fine with me....it leads to higher level of play and, hey, it's not my body.....just like it's not my 7-figure paycheck that gets deposited every month.....

[mostsmooth]

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A few things.

1) Dennis Martinez and Lee Smith were both very good, near hall of famers.
2) It's not just Barry Bonds facing non-white pitchers. It's Bonds facing non-white defenders (quick, name some of the best defenders of all time. Ozzie Smith. Pudge Rodriguez. Willie Mays) and, by comparison, non-white hitters. How much more impressive would Bonds's accomplishments be without guys like Mays and Aaron before him, and guys like Pujols and Beltre in his own league? It's much easier to dominate a league that isn't drawing from its whole talent pool.

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i can argue just as easily that although there are obviously some talented non white players, there is also an overabundance of below average players in general who wouldnt be in the league if there were 16 teams instead of 30. this dilluted talent pool allows bonds to accel.
how impressive would bonds' numbers be if he didnt do juice? very. but he wouldnt have approached mays, ruth, and aarons hr totals, thats pretty obvious.

[Jack of Arcades]

Obvious is the most overused and annoying word in the English language. People like you should not be allowed to use it.

You can try to argue that the talent pool is diluted, but you'll fail.

[Ricky Slade]

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Obvious is the most overused and annoying word in the English language.

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True. One word people should use more often... strategury.

[mostsmooth]

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Obvious is the most overused and annoying word in the English language. People like you should not be allowed to use it.

You can try to argue that the talent pool is diluted, but you'll fail.

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hey dont tell my po i used obvious, ok? it was one of the conditions. thanks

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
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A few things.

1) Dennis Martinez and Lee Smith were both very good, near hall of famers.
2) It's not just Barry Bonds facing non-white pitchers. It's Bonds facing non-white defenders (quick, name some of the best defenders of all time. Ozzie Smith. Pudge Rodriguez. Willie Mays) and, by comparison, non-white hitters. How much more impressive would Bonds's accomplishments be without guys like Mays and Aaron before him, and guys like Pujols and Beltre in his own league? It's much easier to dominate a league that isn't drawing from its whole talent pool.

[/ QUOTE ]
i can argue just as easily that although there are obviously some talented non white players, there is also an overabundance of below average players in general who wouldnt be in the league if there were 16 teams instead of 30. this dilluted talent pool allows bonds to accel.
how impressive would bonds' numbers be if he didnt do juice? very. but he wouldnt have approached mays, ruth, and aarons hr totals, thats pretty obvious.

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Diluted talent pool? You have to be kidding. There are 6 billion people on the planet. I think we can find 700 MLB ballplayers out of that pool.

[Bulldog]

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A few things.

1) Dennis Martinez and Lee Smith were both very good, near hall of famers.
2) It's not just Barry Bonds facing non-white pitchers. It's Bonds facing non-white defenders (quick, name some of the best defenders of all time. Ozzie Smith. Pudge Rodriguez. Willie Mays) and, by comparison, non-white hitters. How much more impressive would Bonds's accomplishments be without guys like Mays and Aaron before him, and guys like Pujols and Beltre in his own league? It's much easier to dominate a league that isn't drawing from its whole talent pool.

[/ QUOTE ]
i can argue just as easily that although there are obviously some talented non white players, there is also an overabundance of below average players in general who wouldnt be in the league if there were 16 teams instead of 30. this dilluted talent pool allows bonds to accel.
how impressive would bonds' numbers be if he didnt do juice? very. but he wouldnt have approached mays, ruth, and aarons hr totals, thats pretty obvious.

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Diluted talent pool? You have to be kidding. There are 6 billion people on the planet. I think we can find 700 MLB ballplayers out of that pool.

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Exactly. Versus 400 out of less than a billion then.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
A few things.

1) Dennis Martinez and Lee Smith were both very good, near hall of famers.
2) It's not just Barry Bonds facing non-white pitchers. It's Bonds facing non-white defenders (quick, name some of the best defenders of all time. Ozzie Smith. Pudge Rodriguez. Willie Mays) and, by comparison, non-white hitters. How much more impressive would Bonds's accomplishments be without guys like Mays and Aaron before him, and guys like Pujols and Beltre in his own league? It's much easier to dominate a league that isn't drawing from its whole talent pool.

[/ QUOTE ]
i can argue just as easily that although there are obviously some talented non white players, there is also an overabundance of below average players in general who wouldnt be in the league if there were 16 teams instead of 30. this dilluted talent pool allows bonds to accel.
how impressive would bonds' numbers be if he didnt do juice? very. but he wouldnt have approached mays, ruth, and aarons hr totals, thats pretty obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Diluted talent pool? You have to be kidding. There are 6 billion people on the planet. I think we can find 700 MLB ballplayers out of that pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Versus 400 out of less than a billion then.

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Not true. Unlike today, many players back then were exluded from playing. Also, today baseball is played in parts of the world where it was never played back then. The pool of players was much, much smaller then.

[The Stranger]

I've heard this debate off and on for the past few years on sports talk radio: Bonds or Ruth?

In truth, this is an unanswerable question. Both were dominant in their own eras.

I could argue that because Ruth had more home runs than some teams had home runs in certain seasons, and was a dominant pitcher, that he is a better baseball player than Bonds.

Or I could argue that because baseball has been studied and coached for decades since Ruth's retirement, there is better training and nutrition now, along with international recruiting and development, that Bonds is the better player. And the steroid issue is irrelevant to this debate IMO, because if nobody used them back in the old days, and most of the players use them now, both players are on a level playing field with their competition.

I am in awe watching Barry Bonds play baseball today, just as baseball fans were in awe watching Babe Ruth play back in his day.

Like with most arguments, if someone already has their mind made up, he will not be persueded out of his opinion on this one.

I still nominate Hannity for biggest jackass though.

[sublime]

i don't have much to add to this thread except that barry is my favorite player and that i met him once and he was nice to me. and i think he's one of the top players ever and that we should all be grateful to have watched him play and be amazed by what he does on the field instead of bickering over this issue.

"this" issue?

cmon' chris. this is pretty big stuff, considering he is going to move past a really great man and break a huge record.

[Justin A]

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Lots of other great baseball players were major league jackasses. Ty Cobb probably tops the list, but Ted Williams, Rogers Hornsby and Mickey Mantle surely deserve honorable mention.

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Mickey Mantle? From what I've read he was a good dude, especially to his younger teammates. Joe Dimaggio would seem to fit the bill better than Mantle.

[Clarkmeister]

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/bondstp.jpg

[Bulldog]

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A few things.

1) Dennis Martinez and Lee Smith were both very good, near hall of famers.
2) It's not just Barry Bonds facing non-white pitchers. It's Bonds facing non-white defenders (quick, name some of the best defenders of all time. Ozzie Smith. Pudge Rodriguez. Willie Mays) and, by comparison, non-white hitters. How much more impressive would Bonds's accomplishments be without guys like Mays and Aaron before him, and guys like Pujols and Beltre in his own league? It's much easier to dominate a league that isn't drawing from its whole talent pool.

[/ QUOTE ]
i can argue just as easily that although there are obviously some talented non white players, there is also an overabundance of below average players in general who wouldnt be in the league if there were 16 teams instead of 30. this dilluted talent pool allows bonds to accel.
how impressive would bonds' numbers be if he didnt do juice? very. but he wouldnt have approached mays, ruth, and aarons hr totals, thats pretty obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Diluted talent pool? You have to be kidding. There are 6 billion people on the planet. I think we can find 700 MLB ballplayers out of that pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Versus 400 out of less than a billion then.

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Not true. Unlike today, many players back then were exluded from playing. Also, today baseball is played in parts of the world where it was never played back then. The pool of players was much, much smaller then.

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You are saying "not true" but I think you are agreeing with me. What is smaller than "less than a billion"? I didn't try to come up with an exact number that'd cause a tangential argument, when I could make my point the way I phrased it.

[Bulldog]

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http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/bondstp.jpg

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I wonder what that guy would look like if he hired a personal trainer and worked out faithfully for 18 years.

[BeerMoney]

Yes, there are bigger JackAsses that Bonds. Has he ever physically abused anyone other than a baseball? Has he been convicted of major crimes that hurt others?

What did he do? He started cheating when he saw others around him doing it and there were no consequences.

So the guy gives a press conference and says "I'm not going to let you pull me down!" He doesn't give standard cliches that other players give. Now everyone hates him.

I would think poker players would like people like this.. A player who says/does what he wants.