Monster draw, 3 way pot

[Nukid]

Playing a 1-2 b&m game, I've been running well and am up to around $1700, and am on the button. Three limpers come in for 2 bucks all with 60-150 in front of them. Cut off also limps and has about 800. I limp on the button with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Both blinds call.

Flop comes Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Big blind (who has around 120 in front of him) fires out 15. First three limpers fold. Cut off calls, and I make it 70. Big blind thinks for a bit and pushes the rest of his chips in. Cut off calls (which surprises me) and I call. Cut off is generally pretty loose, but he doesn't trap with big hands, so I put him ona draw. I thought that maybe I should reraise, but since I can't buy the pot, I want anyone to stick around to pay me off if I hit. I think all in has something like two pair, or possibly a set, he definitely doesn't have a straight, or he would have been much happier going in.

Turn is a K /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Cut off checks to me, and I'm pretty sure he is on a draw. The only draws i can see him playing this way are Ax /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,Jx /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, or 9x /images/graemlins/diamond.gif I also am pretty sure that he would have raised the flop with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I can't see him putting this much in on a non-nut flush draw without some other outs. I figure I'm a big favorite over any of those hands, but not one on the main pot, so I figure I'll try and build a side pot without knocking out the cutoff, and bet out $150. He thinks for a good bit and calls.

The turn comes the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif. He pushes his remaining $430 into the pot and I fold. Do you think this was too weak? Should I have bet more on the turn, or re-raised the flop to eliminate the cutoff?

[Kaz The Original]

Easy all in over the other guys all in. Note, you want him to have a straight more than a set.

[Nukid]

Do I really make extra money by pushing on the flop? I have zero fold equity, and I can't think that anything other than a set, a straight, or the A high flush draw calls, all of which would be favorites over my hand. If I was heads up with either of them, I love trying to bet them out, but do I really want to semi-bluff at a protected pot? I have position on the cut-off, and i really don't want him to fold his J high flush draw when I need to catch to win anyways. I've got a pretty good read on him, and I'm pretty sure if he has a flush draw that hit's, he's putting it all in then. I figure i could lay my cards open on the table to get a read on whether he has the A high, and call/fold appropriately. If I get no help on the turn, I can always check behind. I think pushing on the flop takes away the full advantage of my position on the second player. I might be wrong on this butI'm not convinved.

[Utah]

Nope. It is not an easy push assuming he will not fold. The odds are fascinating here:

Odds against possible hands (odds of hero winning)

Ad,xd 38%
Ad,Jd 28%
QQ,JJ,88 40%
10,9 Straight 52%

So, the better his made hand the worse his odds of winning. If he flopped the nuts straight, you are the favorite. You are also better to be against a set than A,2suited.

I never would have guessed that.

The only way pushing here is smart is if there is a chance he will fold.

**odds courtesy of cardplayer.com's odds calculator

[Kaz The Original]

If you mean you have no fold equity in the main pot, this is obviously correct, but you are getting laid 2:1 there, so that's fine, unless he has AJD.

If you think you have no fold equity in the side pot... well, that doesn't jive with anything else.

The pot is fairly big, go after it. Don't try trapping.

[Nukid]

I have no fold equity in the main pot, and the side pot is non-existant on the flop. If I put the all in big blind on 2 pair plus, Do I really want to risk a lot of money to get out someone when I have to hit to win? I mean, the only hand I really mind him in with is A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifx /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. So why try and push him off two pair or a weaker flush draw?

[KissDeezNuts]

As you said, CO was a loose player and with those cards on the board, you have to assume you're beat obviously. On the flop, your straight flush has great odds. CO being a loose player, you should've already known he's gonna call a bet on the turn that was about 3rd of the pot. You should've made a bet that corresponds to the pot odds, which may or may not be 33%, I'm not sure. Personally I would've checked knowing he's gonna call any bet and try to catch the man hand, and then make a decent size bet that a loose player like him would call but that's just me.