BB special -- too weak tight?

[Rococo]

5 handed NLH 2-5 blinds.

Villain has $375. I have approximately $800.

Villain is not crazy, but he is definitely too aggressive. He likes to bluff a lot if he senses weakness. He has been going up and down. If he is paying attention, he probably views me as tight, as I have been letting him take the lead on a lot of hands.

Preflop

I get 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif in the BB. Villain limps under the gun. CO folds. Button limps. SB completes. I check, of course.

Flop

4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks. I check. Villain bets $20. Button and SB fold. I call.

Turn

J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check. Villain bets $40. I raise to $125. Villain calls.

River

6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I check. Villain pushes. I fold.



I am not at all convinced that I played this hand well, so feel free to be harsh.

[Rococo]

I'm not getting too many bites on this one. Should I have check raised the flop, and led the turn?

[Plusch]

I am not convinced you are beaten here. Consider the line it looks like it could be a check raise bluff by you considering you check the river. Also if he probably thinks you are weak tight and may try a bluff on that basis. You must lead the river to clarify you slow played a big hand.

If he is very aggressive and bluffs when he senses weakness that could very well be the case here. It sounds like he could make this exact play with a good jack (which is 2 pr on this board) or a total bluff. The way you played the hand you very well may have induced a bluff. Lead the river hard. Also considering you have no kicker and can get scared off maybe check raise the flop. Other than that the play is reasonable.

[DrPublo]

Your turn check-raise announces your hand, and yet villain isn't shaken. Unless he's a complete idiot he knows you have a 9. He's not going away and your kicker sucks.

Good fold.

The Doc

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not convinced you are beaten here. Consider the line it looks like it could be a check raise bluff by you considering you check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he bet if he put you on a checkraise bluff? If he has a really marginal hand here, like two pair, he will check behind. There is no reason to bet if he put you on a bluff. If the CR was a bluff, then of course the poster would fold to any bet. There is no point in value betting when you put your opponent on a bluff.

To the OP:

Your hand was pretty clearly defined when you check called the flop. When you checkraised the turn he had to know you had a 9.

Good fold.

[Rococo]

Heys guys -- I am confortable that my fold on the river was correct. I am more interested in whether my line on the flop and the turn was correct. Keep in mind that I have two goals -- extracting as much money from my overaggressive (but not crazy) opponent if he does not have a 9, and folding as cheaply as possible if he does have a 9.

[radioheadfan]

I think he pushed b/c you showed weakness on the river. He could have done this w/ any two cards ("opponent is too aggressive").

He may have called you with the spade draw then pushed after he missed and you showed weakness. If he had you beat he probably would've made a bet of around $100 to extract money from the 9 he "knows" you have.

This doesn't look like a bet that wants a call.

I think you folded the winner.

*** And yes, your line screams "I HAVE A 9!"....but maybe your opponent thought he could push you off it with a big bet on the river even though he couldn't beat your hand.

I would personally lead that flop, and then push if raised. Your line makes what you're holding way too obvious.

If flat called on the flop, I'd go for an all-in check-raise on the turn. If checked through, I'd make a modest value bet on most rivers with the intent of calling a reasonable river raise.

[Rococo]

If I lead the flop and get called, why would I go for an all-in turn check raise? This is a classic case of being way ahead or way behind. My checkraise probably folds out every hand that I am way ahead of, and gets me stacked off if he has a 9. I am not particularly worried about the spade draw given that he called a bet on the flop.

[radioheadfan]

Leading the flop makes people wonder whether you have a 9. Many people will raise you here with a pocket pair over and under 9s to find out where you're at. There you push. You'll run into a pocket pair more often than another 9 here.

Others with an overpair (or other pocket pair) will call waiting to see what you do on the turn. When you check, they might figure their pair to be good and they bet - allowing you to raise and put them to a decision.

Yes this line sucks when another player has a 9 or boat. But those situations are rare enough that I think you need to worry about maximizing your profit when you are ahead.

Many people won't give you credit for a 9 when you lead the flop - expecting someone with a 9 to slowplay. That's what makes my suggested line profitable in my opinion.

The line you took makes your hand more obvious and makes it easy for a good player to outplay you.

You may an induce a good player to lose more money with a hand like TT or 88. What good player lays down TT on the flop when the BB comes out betting a paired flop? Most will raise you. Those who flat call you will bet the turn if you check (thinking you took one stab at the pot and are now backing down), allowing you to put the rest in.

Tough not to lose money to a better 9 or a boat here I think. The way you played it you lost money and didn't even know if you were beat.

[Rococo]

My objection was to the turn check raise all in, not leading the flop. With a more passive player behind, I would normally lead the flop. I don't expect to get much action from an overpair on the flop, however. Remember that this was a limpfest preflop in a 5 handed game. Pockets higher than 9s were unlikely in my opinion.

[radioheadfan]

Oh [censored] I didn't see that it was 5-handed. In that case I don't mind how you played it against this player. I still think his river push is a call.

[creedofhubris]

By checking the river to an aggressive player with a hand as strong as yours, you are committing yourself to calling his inevitable bet.