Hand against a tilter

[TheWorstPlayer]

ok, I just sat down at the table, but the hand right before I had gotten a seat, the BB in this hand had called bets on the flop and turn with bottom pair and the had his bluff called on the river when he was checked to. Then I sat down and my first hand he open pushed preflop but got no callers. This is now my second hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($25.2)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($24.25)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Button ($22.5)</font>
SB ($45.85)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($12.45)</font>

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets $10.45 (All-in), Hero ... ?

[RiverTheNuts]

call, you got 9 outs to the nuts, at least 3 and probably 6 overcard outs, backdoor straight out, and you will win this pot unimproved about 1/3rd of the time I would estimate

[TheWorstPlayer]

OK, I don't want to stifle discussion here, so if people think I shouldn't call this, definitely let me know. But I thought along these lines and called. I'm going to sleep now, so I am going to post the turn so that I can wake up and read some terrific discussion of this fantastic turn card.

------
Hero calls $10.45, Button calls $10.45.

Turn: (~$40) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero .... ?

[RiverTheNuts]

river was a jack and his JT boat beat you didnt it?

[Caruso329]

River was the Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Villain starts jumping up and down because his 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif straight flush is the nuts...oh wait.. what two cards did he just show me?



[censored]


I call here everytime btw.

[jhall23]

I might actually push on this flop with the button left to act behind me. I wouldn't want to be looking at a dry sidepot if one of the 9-15 outs didn't hit on the turn. You are probably much closer to the full 15 outs against the tilter. Who knows about the button since you just sat down. It's a good early image move as well since you are guranteed your cards will get shown down.

[KowCiller]

FWIW, I think I'd push this flop. I agree with the other posters and think you're probably drawing to 15 clean outs most of the time. Shut out the button and take the tilter's stack.

KoW

[Utah]

You have 15 outs, 9 pure. You might already be ahead.

A very easy call.

[Tilt]

[ QUOTE ]
I might actually push on this flop with the button left to act behind me. I wouldn't want to be looking at a dry sidepot if one of the 9-15 outs didn't hit on the turn. You are probably much closer to the full 15 outs against the tilter. Who knows about the button since you just sat down. It's a good early image move as well since you are guranteed your cards will get shown down.

[/ QUOTE ]

His call adds to your EV at this point. Why chase him out? Your pot equity is probably much higher than his. IMO, you want his money in this pot. Although you win less often, youll win so much more when you do.

As for the turn play, his flop call may very well indicate a smaller flush draw so just shove it in on the turn no matter what comes. No free cards are necessary. Hell likely call the turn bet but may fold the river if he doesnt fill up.

[jhall23]

My thoughts were that anything he would call the 10.45 he would probably also call your push with. I just don't see a smaller flush draw calling the 10.45 to begin with, but of course there are some players like this at party thankfully. I'd rather get it in with 2 cards to come than be obligated to follow up on the turn. There is a good chance that a hand like AJ would call anyway.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I thought about pushing on the flop, but I thought it was pretty clear that the BB was on some massive tilt so I was hoping to actually get the BUTTON to push over my call with garbage. I thought getting it all in on the flop would be great. If he had anything, I expected him to push. If he had nothing, I expected him to fold. But then he called...WTF? (If I were he, I would have pushed for sure given his hand, FWIW.) So now on the turn, I had what I considered to be the immortal lock on the hand and I wanted that last $11. So I checked to the button to give him his chance to push now, afraid that I would scare him out if I came alive when the flush draw hit. He checked behind.

The river came a blank and now I was afraid that it would get checked through, so I pushed. He called with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif for top pair, good kicker. (I would have definitely pushed that on the flop.) The BB showed an impressive Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif for Q high.

[Lawrence Ng]

I push on the flop here.

Lawrence

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I push on the flop here.

Lawrence

[/ QUOTE ]
Lawrence, can you explain why that is better than calling? Obviously, I would be really happy to get it all in here. But I thought that any hand that the button would be willing to call a push with, he would push with himself, and if he was willing to call if I flat called, I didn't see any reason to push him out. I thought that his only two options, basically were to push or fold and if he wanted to push, I didn't want to force him to fold. I was really surprised when he just called, actually.