should I have made this call?

[KDawgCometh]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.5. CO posts a blind of $0.75.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (16.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 calls, Button calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB

I made the original call because of the half bet and the fact that there were a lot of people in it. The call of the raise I feel was automaticconsidering the pot size. The general lot of this group was passive. I feel that I made a bad fold on the river due to the pot size

[Buck_65]

I think attempting to complete is fine with this much in the pot, but I'd fold when it comes back around for a full small bet.

3-bet the flop for value, if everyone called 2 cold, they'll call another (or 2 more if it gets capped). Check-call the turn, check-fold the river if the action is exactly as it played out originally, but there's a chance you'll have to call a bet with an enormous pot.

[Shillx]

This is a really poor flop bet. I'll let others elaborate.

Brad

[macdaddy991]

Fold preflop, even for half a bet. You are not suited, and have terrible position.

I would 3 bet this flop. You have nine outs to the nut flush, and have a raiser to help you knock out others.

Turn fine.

River. If he has a queen, you are beat, however this seems like a passive table, and they could be calling with anything. You may lose one bet if you are wrong, but folding incorrectly will cost you the whole pot.

However you could have saved a lot of heartache if you folded preflop.

[the_rookie]

Preflop- fold, but it seems you understand this mistake.

Flop and turn is fine.

Yes you should have called the river for one more bet. You should be good 1 out of 20 times here to be profitable. BB has something good to raise out the blinds with. I'm guessing he either has a big pocket pair or broadway.... AK/AQ/AJ. Which means you still have a chance to take down this pot.

MP1 and button I'm guessing either had a lone jack or two pair that was counterfeited on the turn.

[caggin]

Fold preflop. The large number of people in actually makes it worse for you, you are almost certainly dominated.

Reraise the flop for value. Odds of making your flush are about 1:2, so if you have at least 2 callers you can raise.

I think I call the river for 1 bet in a big pot but I don't expect to win. It's possible that BB has KK (tho I think it's the ONLY hand you beat that he would play this way, logically) and I'm not as worried about being dominated anymore. Plus you close the betting, so yeah, I think I call.

[the_rookie]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a really poor flop bet. I'll let others elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we planning to check-raise the field? I don't understand the problem with leading the flop. If BB raised and it forced someone with just a small pair to fold that's good for us (In case a 2 outer were to hit the turn /images/graemlins/smile.gif ). If we aren't raised that's fine too because we are drawing to the nut flush.

[gopnik]

c/r the flop, you have 35% pot equity and in perfect position to trap everybody for 1 more bet since the preflop aggresor is on your left. Turn is fine. Call the river.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
c/r the flop, you have 35% pot equity and in perfect position to trap everybody for 1 more bet since the preflop aggresor is on your left.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur. Perfect position to c/r.

[@bsolute_luck]

okay, i'm a newbie so take this thinking with a grain of salt, but maybe we can both learn.

i'd fold preflop as well because of off-suit, low kicker. i think your position was good because of all the limp-ins if you decide to play based on table conditions/opponent knowledge.

but if you're going to play, then that flop comes, i'd 3-bet to make others think i have the flush- which you might and your's is the highest if it hits. the pot odds to the remain 9 hearts is good.

i'd disagree with the turn because: if you're playing like you hit the flush, by checking it shows others you might not have it- but lets think you're slow play, then by not reraising, it is very obvious you don't. so if you weren't going to reraise, i'd have folded.

the river, you hit your top pair. you'd only lose to flush, or trips. if you're going to play that far, pot odds is call/raise. that's what i think anyways.

[DeathDonkey]

Glad to see a new player posting and giving your thoughts. That said, you have alot of ideas wrong in this post.

3 betting the flop may be the right play, but not for that reason. I promise you will never convince anyone you have the flush by doing this, and even if you did convince them, what's the point? You can't bluff all these opponents at the same time, there's no point in trying. 3 betting the flop would be for pure value since you expect to make the flush about 1/3. If you have 3 callers to your raise then every dollar you put in you expect to win more than that dollar back.

Checking the turn is mandatory because you don't have anything but Ace high. Again, no way everyone folds to your "flush", don't bother trying this stuff. Folding the turn would also be terrible given we have 9 outs that we expect to be good.

To OP: the flop bet is painful, just painful to me. You can CR the whole field but you don't. Driving out the opponents when you are on a pure draw is not a good idea. You want them around to pay you off when you hit. I would make a crying call on the river.

-DeathDonkey

[@bsolute_luck]

Donkey: thanks for being so kind on my mistakes.

so it wasn't that the 3-bet would have been wrong, but just for the wrong reasons?

then the hand was played correctly other than not folding on the river when top 2 pair hits? what is a "crying call"?

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
c/r the flop, you have 35% pot equity and in perfect position to trap everybody for 1 more bet since the preflop aggresor is on your left. Turn is fine. Call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking. Don't expect to be shown a worse and much, though.

[DeathDonkey]

Well the 3 bet would be ok given the previous action. But, the initial flop bet is very bad. On a draw you want to keep opponents in should you hit. By betting into the PFR he gives the PFR the opportunity to raise and force the others out. This is not good for our drawing hand.

A crying call means making a call when you only think there is a very slim chance of winning, but with a pot this big that slim chance should not be completely discounted. Thus, you call on the end, and expect to lose most of the time.

-DeathDonkey