Books on Omaha 8/b

[Grindin']

Can anyone here recommend some good books on Omaha, in particular Omaha 8/b. Thanks!

[Luckless57]

This question is asked many times and you will always get several different opinions on which book to buy. I've read a few and they helped me a little in the beginning. For me the only way I was able to get better at this game was by playing a lot(a few of the posters in this forum also are quite helpful). Reading one of the basic books to get you started would be my recommendation. I believe the one by tenner and kreiger(close to what his last name is) is very basic and should help you learn what you need to know to play low limit omaha/8.

[TheShootah]

Cmon guys! Ray Zee's book is the best, hands down. The man is a champ! It's good for low limit games and for the tough games!

[johnnybeef]

actually, i found ss2 to have a very good section on omaha 8.

[__Q__]

SS2 really helped me a lot when I first started playing O8. I think it is more basic than and is a good prep for Ray Zee's book.

[Luckless57]

I've read it and I thought it was a good book, but to tell you the truth none of these books make you a good omaha/8 player. I think the key to someone just starting out is probably learning hand selection and what their hand strength is realative to the flop. This is usually covered in most any basic book.

[johnnybeef]

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SS2 really helped me a lot when I first started playing O8. I think it is more basic than and is a good prep for Ray Zee's book.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed.

[pipes]

SS2 is really good. Hellmuth's section on O8b is basic, but very good as well. Krieger is okay but I think he is too loose preflop. (Is he really playing 4455?)

Zee's book really does not offer that much at all IMO.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]


Zee's book really does not offer that much at all IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ray's book is not ABC poker with starting charts and do this/don't do that. Therefore it is not the best book for a beginner.

What it does do is lead you toward thinking about situations, and give you general principles for decision making. You have to know the game before you can get full value out of the book. For a complete beginner in O8, I'd recommend Tenner and Krieger, followed by SS2, followed by Zee, with lots of play along the way.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]


Zee's book really does not offer that much at all IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there is a beginners section in the book that covers the basics, but he does not get into odds at all.

I think Phil's book is a good cheap place to start, but I am not sure where to go for good odds. Ray's book should be saved for a while, it is quite expensive too.

[pipes]

Beginner through expert, I just don't think the Zee book has alot of substance to it. But if anything, I think it would help a beginner more than an advanced player. As Beavis says, it does have a decent section on general concepts. But the sections dedicated to advanced strategies are just a series of random extremely vague essays IMO.

But I think the Stud8b section is very good and would recommend the book just based on that.

[Moneyline]

IMO the 4 best O8 books are:

1) Super System 2
2) High Low Split Poker For Advanced Players
3) How To Win at Omaha High Low Poker by Mike Cappelletti
4) Omaha High-Low by Bill Boston

Hellmuth's book is good for beginners, the Tenner/Krieger book and Ken Warren's book are awful IMO...

[djr]

reallY? I liked Tenner/Krieger much more than Cappellitti.

[Klak]

the ray zee book is by far the best. you need to read it about 10 more times if you think its:
[ QUOTE ]
a series of random extremely vague essays

[/ QUOTE ]
it may seem vague because there are so many different situations to cover in it.

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
the ray zee book is by far the best. you need to read it about 10 more times if you think its:
[ QUOTE ]
a series of random extremely vague essays

[/ QUOTE ]
it may seem vague because there are so many different situations to cover in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh, I knew I would get one of these posts by one of the lemmings. Believe me I've read it many many times, and I have the ability to read and comprehend. I'm not missing anything. Just not a tremendous amount of useful material in that section.

[gergery]

I don’t think any of the O8 books out there are that good, to be honest.

Tenner/Krieger is best at laying out the pure basics for a complete beginner, and giving simple “do this” instructions. After that its crap. Well organized, but lots of useless info.

Capelletti’s is best for covering the full range of O8 play. It lays out the basics, which hands to play, covers some of the essential odds, covers some important situations and whys, and has some advanced topics. It also has good statistics sprinkled throughout, and has “here’s me playing this hand and why in several scenarios”. I would say this is the single most valuable book of the lot, but that’s not saying much. Unfortunately, it is very disorganized and hard to find all the good info, and it requires a few reads to get there.

Zee’s book is very good, but it is what it says it is -- for advanced players. It is more a list of “here’s a fairly specific situation and what you should do/think about”. Those are good and helpful, but only for someone who is fairly familiar with both general poker concepts and O8 specific play.

Warren’s book is helpful for giving lots of examples of “here’s a low board/high board --what hand is best?” if you want some practice reading boards. Worth a quick scan in a bookstore at most.

Other good sources to learn are Hutchinson’s Omaha point count system (good for fiddling with various hands to see how playable they are), Steve Badger’s website (pretty good overall), Annie Duke’s website (a few good articles here and there), and Capelletti & Krieger’s Cardplayer articles (worth a read).

Haven’t read Hellmuth’s book but if its at all like his other two books its not worth more than a quick bookstore scan at best.

Haven’t read Bill Boston’s book.

My advice to someone getting started would be, in order: 1) Read Tenner/Krieger’s section on what hands to play and how to play some flop situations which is maybe <20 pages (while in a bookstore). 2) Read the free online articles, 3) play a bunch, 4) buy and read capelletti, 5) after you’re ready, buy and read Zee

--Greg

[BradleyT]

All of the books mentioned are good books. I'd recommend every single one of them. However if I went back and re-read some of them now I probably wouldn't learn much because they've already taught me what I know and how I should be analyzing my hand, the board, the bets, position, etc.

[beset7]

BradleyT-is that where you learned to play AAAK outside the blinds? I saw your pokertracker stats on the PTO forum! now I've got the dirt. (jk).

[FeliciaLee]

Ray Zee without a doubt.

A lot of people just don't understand the 2+2 books. They seem deceptively simple sometimes. They give people that "Duh!" impression, that advanced play is going on all the time, in every game, at every limit.

It's not. Sure, Sklansky may have written about the raise on the flop to get a free turn with a draw twenty years ago, and everyone thinks that is SUCH a common play, and going on all the time at even the lowest limits. Just think about it, though, how often do you see it? Rarely, if ever, and that is the MOST often seen "advanced" play.

Underrating 2+2 books is very, very good for my bankroll. I hope players continue to do so. But you who fail time and again to see the value of these books are making a huge error. I implore you to look at these books with a different attitude. Take notes, make columns on a legal pad about some of these plays, listing the times you've seen extremely advanced, positive EV plays in your games. Don't be deceived, look beyond what you think is so obvious.

Even at the lowest limits possible, Ray's book holds the key to a winning strategy. He doesn't mince words, you really can play by rote, on the Internet, and buy some essentials at even the microlimits. Just because it is "so easy" doesn't mean it's not the best strategy.

I did a three-way chop last September in a $1500 buy-in O8 tourney. Zee's work was responsible for this, not Cappelleti's or Krieger's. I'm not putting them down, I'm simply saying that if you do not own Ray's book, or if you are underestimating it, you are doing yourself a huge disservice, while doing me a huge favor. So get that book!

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BradleyT]

Ha! That was from a 6 max table with 5 players.

Villain shows [ 8h, 6h, Js, Th ] a pair of nines.
Hero shows [ Ah, Kh, As, Ac ] two pairs, aces and nines.

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Ha! That was from a 6 max table with 5 players.

Villain shows [ 8h, 6h, Js, Th ] a pair of nines.
Hero shows [ Ah, Kh, As, Ac ] two pairs, aces and nines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh the joys of 6max /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Luckless57]

"Zee's work was responsible for this"

I find that hard to believe. I'm guessing there's a lot more to it then that.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
"Zee's work was responsible for this"

I find that hard to believe. I'm guessing there's a lot more to it then that.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is always a lot more to everything. Anytime you win a tourney, there are a lot of things that went perfectly.

I've posted about this a lot back then, so I just wanted to stick to the subject.

But yeah, every time Max Stern (to my right at our first table) raised me, he had aces. Every time, he flopped a set. Every time, I had the nut low draw so I stayed with him. Every time, I ended up making a straight or a flush, and the board never paired, so I scooped. It was just a strange situation.

I won in all of the right places. I got lucky, plus I played a game that I wasn't too familiar with, and gave little away, since I didn't always read my lows correctly and was nervous. Any time a player tried to get a handle on me, he failed, not because of some kind of mental gynmastics, but because I was inexperienced and no one knew who I was at that time.

The structure was also fantastic. Hour levels, 3000 in chips, starting at 15/30 and moving up gradually. That is heaven for a rock like me! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Lots of great things happened during that tourney. If you want to read about it, I think I posted it in the Other Poker section back in Sept or Oct 2004. It's also on my journal site.

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif
www.felicialee.net (http://www.felicialee.net)