1st Hand KK vs. a re-raise

[SuitedSixes]

1st hand of a $22. I am in middle position with KK, UTG min-raises. I re-raise to 105. Button re-raises to 210. UTG folds. Auto-push?

Does the answer change if UTG calls?
Goes all-in?

[Sidekick]

I would probably reraise to 400. Given the pattern though, I suspect Button is going to either reraise all-in or call an all-in. However, I have seen it just often enough that if I reraise all-in they will fold and I would rather have them call for the 400 rather than have them fold to the all-in here.

I will be interested in seeing other opinions though.

Edit: Missed the secondary questions.

If UTG calls it doesn't change anything for me.
If UTG goes all-in I call. No way I can fold KK on first hand preflop.

[lastchance]

If UTG is all-in, you call. If UTG calls, you're all-in.

If UTG folds, I might consider just calling to try to get more chips in the middle.

[ReDeYES88]

KK heads up (taking into consideration the $20+2)

semi-loose
67.6525 % { KK }
32.3475 % { AA-JJ, AKs-ATs, AKo-ATo }

pretty tight
63.3173 % { KK }
36.6827 % { AA-JJ, AKs-AQs, AKo }

KK three way

pretty tight
59.8208 % { KK }
20.0896 % { AA-JJ, AKs-ATs, AKo-ATo }
20.0896 % { AA-JJ, AKs-ATs, AKo-ATo }

pretty loose
51.7616 % { KK }
27.0315 % { AA-JJ, AKs-AQs, AKo }
21.2070 % { AA-TT, AKs-ATs, AKo-ATo }

The results of the "pretty loose" three way are almost identical for you if the second villan is playing { AA-22, AKs-ATs, AKo-ATo }. In fact, your equity is only ~52% if the second villan is playing any broadway and any pair.

I think I'm riding KK pretty hard HU. I might not always push, though. Very well could re-raise to 400-450 and give him a chance to bail out, and lead push the flop if he doesn't.

Three way is a much closer decision, for sure, and I'm actually a bit surprised at how close to a coinflip it is the looser the hands get. I don't think that I want to take a coinflip this early when I think that I can outplay the field over the long run.

Just this evening in the $20+2s I witnessed KTo, A8o, and ATo get all their chips in the middle PF during the first round, the ATo actually limp/pushing over the top of a 135 PF raise and a call.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Three way is a much closer decision, for sure, and I'm actually a bit surprised at how close to a coinflip it is the looser the hands get. I don't think that I want to take a coinflip this early when I think that I can outplay the field over the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

AAAAARGH not this again.

It's a coinflip to triple up. You ARE NOT 50% better than the field.

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]


AAAAARGH not this again.

It's a coinflip to triple up. You ARE NOT 50% better than the field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, you're right. I think the 5 watt bulb in my brain just flickered.

[morgan180]

i think auto-push, if he has aces at least you can work on your hourly rate /images/graemlins/wink.gif

if UTG calls i push
if UTG goes all in i call all-in

i would think at the 20's you're still in good shape. maybe 50s + up you could let it go if UTG smooth called/RR (but that is just my thoughts based on reading higher-level player threads for the last sixth months and not actual game experience)

[morgan180]

hey you're the irie protege ... you tell us!

[SuitedSixes]

I actually had two of these in the same 4-table session this afternoon. One was exactly as described, UTG folded and I pushed. Everyone here agrees that the push is the right move, and I agree. If I called and saw the flop, if there was no A I was going to make a pot-sized bet, which may as well have been all-in at the point. If there was an A, I would probably go into check-fold mode. In the 1st hand of these things, you get all kinds of crazy all-ins so I went with it. In hand 1, my all-in was called by AA, did not improve and finished 10th, just in time to "work on my hourly rate."

In the 2nd hand UTG went all in when it came back to him. I just didn't see the min-raise UTG coming from AA, so I called him. The button went all-in as well. They both showed QQ and I was a 96% favorite. My hand held up and I had over 30% of the chips on the table and went on to win as easy as chili through a baby.

I'll post my usual disclaimer: In a tournament with deeper stacks in which I paid 10K for a seat and drove over 300 miles to get there, I may think about waiting for a better chance (unless it's the WSOP because first out gets serious face time). But playing for $22 in my living room it's an easy push.

[ilya]

First hand of a $22, I don't think I can even fold QQ here. Folding KK is absolutely out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

[SuitedSixes]

I'm with you on this. There is just too much wierdness on the first hand to take any all-in very seriously. Is QQ as low as you go, though?

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]

I'll post my usual disclaimer: In a tournament with deeper stacks in which I paid 10K for a seat and drove over 300 miles to get there, I may think about waiting for a better chance (unless it's the WSOP because first out gets serious face time). But playing for $22 in my living room it's an easy push.

[/ QUOTE ]

A decision is either correct or incorrect. Correct decisions increase your chance of winning. Incorrect decisions decrease your chance of winning.

If you pay $10K and drive 300 miles to play in a tournament, I sure as hell hope you're doing it to win. If you have a different motivation, your money is as dead as it comes.

If it's the first hand of the WSOP main event and you're in the BB with Aces and all 9 opponents go all-in... well, that should be the easiest call of your life. All of the people who think that decision is tough have one thing in common:

They don't have a bracelet... and they never will.

Irieguy

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
If it's the first hand of the WSOP main event and you're in the BB with Aces and all 9 opponents go all-in... well, that should be the easiest call of your life. All of the people who think that decision is tough have one thing in common:

They don't have a bracelet... and they never will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Hellmuth? Would he call this?

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it's the first hand of the WSOP main event and you're in the BB with Aces and all 9 opponents go all-in... well, that should be the easiest call of your life. All of the people who think that decision is tough have one thing in common:

They don't have a bracelet... and they never will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Hellmuth? Would he call this?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, and he'd let everybody know what he layed down.

[curtains]

allin

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it's the first hand of the WSOP main event and you're in the BB with Aces and all 9 opponents go all-in... well, that should be the easiest call of your life. All of the people who think that decision is tough have one thing in common:

They don't have a bracelet... and they never will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil Hellmuth? Would he call this?

[/ QUOTE ]

He, and all the other big names get asked this question every year. They always answer it the same way.

Phil is very vocal about all the times he lays down big hands... even when his read is that he's ahead. A year or two ago he laid down kings preflop early in the big event and coerced his opponent to show his hand... he had aces.

SuitedSixes is probably right, though: if the camera was around, he'd consider folding for the dramatic content and air time. But there's no question that he calls if there was any chance that it wouldn't be on TV. I watched him answer this question at the WSOP a few years ago, he said:

"Nobody's good enough to pass up that chance... not even me."

That became the running joke among pros for how to answer the question; now everbody (Paul Phillips, most recently in an interview, I think) says:

"Nobody's good enough to fold aces preflop, not even Phil Helmuth."

Irieguy