Hand to evaluate

[Brad F.]

Last night, local tourney, 40 entrants, 8 pay. 1500 starting chips. Please evaluate every street. I will not post results for a while.

Early in the tourney, level II, blinds are 20-50.

I (Hero) has about 1900, villian has 1750 or so. Not much of a read on the villian, it's early, but I haven't seen him do anything questionable thus far. He is UTG, I am MP1.

He open raises to 150. 1 fold, I look down at K/images/graemlins/spade.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I call. All others fold.

Flop (t370): 10/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Villian bets 200. Hero calls 200.

Turn (t770): A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villian checks. Hero checks.

River (t770): 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Villian fingers chips, grabs some, looks as if he is going to bet, and then checks. Hero checks.

Final Pot: t770

Results will follow.

Brad

[Potowame]

This was played pretty passive all the way through. I really dont like the Call preflop with KQs. But since you did I think if you want to win this pot you have to make a move on the flop or turn. I would bet half, 2/3 the pot on the turn. It looks like you where chasing the nut flush with overs and caught your A. Other than that he is going to call your river bet unless he has a unpaired hand.

[schwza]

definitely muck preflop. calling utg raises with KQ (esp with a lot of players to act behind you) is bad times.

raise the flop. you want to knock out AK/AQ, and if he pushes with an overpair, call and take the coinflip (maybe better than a coinflip if your overcard(s) are good). if calls, put him squarely on an overpair and check behind if you miss the turn.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
This was played pretty passive all the way through. I really dont like the Call preflop with KQs. But since you did I think if you want to win this pot you have to make a move on the flop or turn. I would bet half, 2/3 the pot on the turn. It looks like you where chasing the nut flush with overs and caught your A. Other than that he is going to call your river bet unless he has a unpaired hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree with this. if he's giving you the free river, take it and thank him.

[DemonDeac]

i dont mind the calling of the UTG raise because they're sooooooted. if its KQo, muck. you got a damn nice flop, IMO. i play the flop more aggressively. i prolly raise his bet to about 500-600. if he calls and then checks on the turn, i might push depending on how i felt against this certain opponent. for some reason i think he's got a med pp kinda liked the flop, thus the kinda pot-size bet.

just overall, im probably more aggressive with this hand than you played it.

[Brad F.]

I read strength for some strange reason when he was thinking about betting on the river. I thought he was just waiting for a check-raise. (But, yes, passive weak here).

I don't think that folding K-Q suited for a 3x bb bet is a bad play against a semi-unknown opponenet. UTG raises should mean a lot, but more and more I see many opponenets making the raise with non-monster hands.

Any other takers on what the villian had?

Brad

[willie]

i'm not sure what he has, potentially a pocket from 6-8s? The fingering of chips on the river then checking to you doesn't mean he's strong, i see it as a strong means weak situation. It looks as iff he wants to get to showdown as easy as possible on the river.

i'd generally fold kq to a decent raise since it's so easy to be dominated...

but i don't think it should have ever gotten to showdown

i reraise the flop to 500 and pray he goes away

ifhe stays i MIGHT check behind on the turn and take the freecard depending on whether or not i read him for an ace...

it's tough but you gotta get down and dirty and be aggressive with this flop.

2 overs, with the flush draw/ gutshot straight draw, you hit this flop almost as well as you have possibly hoped.

i am interested to see how it ended up, i don't know why but i'm thinkin low pockets, i could also see him having jacks or better here to be honest... that would be the reason that the ace slowed him down on the turn and now he's tryin to look strong to get to showdown on the river...

this is a tough situation to be in, which reinforces that you probably could have done better not to even see the flop.


i know my post is all over the place with advice, it's just pretty hard to decipher what he has based on his play....
plus i'm in a multi and my attention is divided /images/graemlins/grin.gif

RESULTS! i'm kinda dyin to know now

[Brad F.]

Villian had 33, and I played the hand like a scared school-girl. I was just thinking about some hands that won me chips today, and then I thought about that hand and how horrid I played it. That flop was fantastic, the turn was pretty darn good too, and he in retrospect was really scared of the ace.

I've played in about 15 of these local tourneys, getting 2nd once, 5th once and 8th once. My experience in like the 3rd one was brutal, as I was trying to be aggressive and the table was so call happy I couldn't do a damn thing. But this hand really made ma analyze why I'm not consistently making the final table (at least more that 1/5 of the time). It's because of this type of weak type play.

Good analysis and thanks for helping me kick my own butt.

Brad

[Ross]

Pre flop - hate the call even against average players it is a losing play.

Flop - it is about as good as you can hope for bet it raise on the flop.

Turn - If you raise and calls followed by a check take the free card but as you checked the flop represent the ace with a decent sized bet.

River If you are at the river there has been no action on either the flop or the turn in a raised pot a bluff is not going to work. Your bet has come from nowhere it doesnt fit with any of your previous actions you called a preflop raise and then checked twice. What does even a moderate pair have to fear ?

regards

Ross

[Ross]

Brad

Open raising with a pair of 3's UTG is poor play, if this is typical of the standard then a good solid game will take the money.

Calling with marginal hands rewards your opponents mistakes whereas if you make fewer calls conserve your chips and play aggresively when you have an advantage this punishes their mistakes.

Merely by posting on the forum demonstrates you are least thinking about your game which is more than the Guy with the pocket 3's

regards

Ross

[Brad F.]

So how high should I value K-Q suited then? Just out of curiosity. Cuz from the posts here I see I overvalue it way too much, as even against the good players on stars I do make this call much of the time.

What hand in my position (1 raiser UTG, no caller) should I be willing to call with here? Raise with here?

Brad

[Potowame]

This is where the GAP concept comes in...

You must have atleast as a good of a hand that you would open raise with in that postion to call with.

Since KQs is near the bottom end of that range for "most" players, its a fold.

Another mistake that you made was by calling this raise with to many players to act behind you. This requires the hand to be near the top of the GAP to call.

With hands that are near the top of your UTG open raise with AK JJ-KK you can pop a reraise.


So as the open raise moves closer to the Button the GAP opens up and KQ can be a calling hand, But From a Early position raise its usually never wrong to fold.