Bankroll, ROI, and Knowing You're a Winning Player (Some Questions)

[sammy_g]

I've played limit hold'em ring games for a while now and done well. I have a good idea of what bankroll I need, what a good winrate is, and how to calculate that I'm a winning player to various degrees of confidence. Unfortunately, I have no clue about these basics when it comes to tournaments.

* How large a bankroll do you need to keep?

I have sizeable bankroll from ring games, but I'd like to keep a separate tournament bankroll. I'd like to build the tourney bankroll up so that I don't enter tournaments larger than my skill level and so I can be confident I'm actually winning money from tournaments.

* What ROI is good for multitable tournaments?

I've heard anywhere between 2-4x the buy in for very good players. Is this about right? It seems like a large range.

* How do you really know you're a winning player?

This is pretty easy for ring games, but doesn't seem so for tournaments. Tournaments appear to have much higher variance. I am up currently up in my tournament play, but my winnings are really from one final table appearance. I have no idea if I'm a winning tournament player right now. How long before I can know?

You can probably tell I'm new to tournaments. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MLG]

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How large a bankroll do you need to keep?

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My rule of thumb is about 80 for the tournaments you play regularly, although I like many MTTers started out on a roll that was much too short.

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* What ROI is good for multitable tournaments?


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Aspire to 2-2.5x and dream about 3.5x.

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* How do you really know you're a winning player?

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You dont. No joke. It is very difficult, bordering on impossible to prove to a stastical comfort level that you are a winning player.


Side Note: The numbers I've thrown out aren't set in stone, but they are along the same lines as what's commonly accepted.

[sammy_g]

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The numbers I've thrown out aren't set in stone, but they are along the same lines as what's commonly accepted.

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That's just what I was looking for. Thanks!

[Sam T.]

Another stat I've seen bandied about that might help - A solid player will cash about 25% of the time.

One other bit of (unsolicited) advice: Play the Stars two-table SnGs. Lots of poker for a little money. Not as grueling as a full tournament, but takes you though all the stages, including a weird little bubble before the tables are combined. For some reason people will try to fold their way to the final table even though the payouts start at fourth.

[schwza]

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For some reason people will try to fold their way to the final table even though the payouts start at fourth.

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this is probably b/c they have not played much SH poker. incidentally, i think that's probably the most exploitable weakness i've found in MTT's - that people don't steal enough when short-handed and blinds are big.