Funny Craps story

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Last week I'm hanging out with Photoc and we're playing the $2 craps at boulder station with his roommate (who shall remain nameless). We're all getting pretty drunk, and having a good time. Now normally Photoc's roommate is a dont bettor, but today he's been betting the do's. And once he starts betting one way, he "doesn't switch," that's his rule.

Now Photoc and I are betting $2 pass and come with like 3x odds or maybe 5x at the most, but his roommate is betting pretty big, like $10 with 10x odds etc etc.

We're all doing OK, not winning and losing too much, but lately the streak has been bad for the right bettors, and we're losing a bit. His roommate decides it's time to go, and he's going to make one last big bet. He decides to go against the right bettors (thus breaking his own rule), and bets $25 on don't pass. Photoc and myself faithfully put up our $2 on the pass line.

The point comes 10. I put up $7 odds and Photoc puts up $5 odds. His roommate puts up $250 laying odds AGAINST the 10. He was going to BUY the ten, but changed his mind at the last minute and bet the don't.

The shooter throws the dice again, and sure enough, it's a 10. Pay the do's and take the donts.

Photoc and me do a HUGE high-five and shout out "YEAH!!" We've just won like $28 total between the two of us.

Photoc's roommate is absolutely furious. Oops.

al

p.s. I play craps for entertainment and free beer, so get off me already!

[stickman]

Good story........thanks. I agree craps is a good form of entertainment, the free beer is just a bonus /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[youtalkfunny]

I can't afford that free beer. I've found the pay-kind to be cheaper.

[Yeknom58]

This is wisdom boys. Nothing is free!

[TStoneMBD]

dont play craps. the house edge is like, alot and you will only lose money in the long run. you should see gambler's anonymous.

[tylerdurden]

Don't go to movies. You'll only lose money in the long run.

The house edge is pretty small. If you know that going in and view it as entertainment (and craps IS fun), what's the problem?

Are you suggesting anyone that plays craps or any other -EV game needs to go to GA???

[Yads]

I believe it was a joke.

[tylerdurden]

Oh. Haw haw.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Between the beer, and the comps (which amazingly, they rate you for table games while betting $2 pass and come with multi odds), I can't figure that the theoretical loss (about 1c/decision at the amounts I bet) is going to catch up and force me to really lose much over the long run. If you count the entertainment value, I am probably getting the best of it, or at least breaking even.

Boulder's food is pretty darn good too, particularly for the price. I've earned quite a few comps too, probably more than I would have given myself if I was the pit boss there (I wouldn't give myself chit, actually, my play is too small, and I only bet the good bets).

Also, I can take about a $5 cab ride home if I drink too much.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

With SINGLE odds on the pass or come, the house edge is about 0.8%. Since I usually take triple or even 5x odds (there is NO vig on the odds bet) the overall advantage for the house per decision made is less than 0.5% OF THE PASS OR COME AMOUNT ONLY. Since I'm only betting $2 on pass and come, that's about half a penny per decision. And... it's a relatively slow game. I think I can afford that, given the rather high paying job I hold.

So let's review... For my half penny per decision, I get:

1. a good time
2. a few decent comps
3. beer

Not bad at all.

BTW, you should review what exactly the criteria for GA is before you conclude that I should be enrolled in it. I've taken their test before and I don't qualify.

Somehow I knew if I posted this story there would be some nit who doesn't know how to have a good time say something ignorant like you did. I suggest you lighten up and try living it up now and then, life's more fun that way.

I suggest you put $2 on the pass line sometime, then take triple odds, just so you can realize that money isn't everything. I'll send you the half-penny to cover your theoretical loss (so you don't have a heart attack and die because you made a -EV bet).

al

[cardcounter0]

The house edge is 1.414% on your pass or come bet amount.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
The house edge is 1.414% on your pass or come bet amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, on the pass or come bet. There is NO house edge on the odds as they are true odds. Thus lowering the house edge if you play max odds to roughly .5%.

[cardcounter0]

I think that is an incorrect way to look at things.

You pay 1.414% on the amount you bet on the pass or come.
The fact that you make an additional wager in odds doesn't change that. Trying to combine both bets and coming up with an "overall" EV distorts things. It is a false way of looking at things.

I could claim I actually get paid to play craps, since I save so much on my car insurance.

The odds bet has a 0% house edge. The pass and come bet has a 1.414% house edge. period.

So what ever amount you bet on the pass and come, 1.414% goes to the house. And whatever you bet on the odds, 0% goes to the house, you are only at the mercy of short term variance.

A $2 pass bet with full odds, or no odds, or 5x odds, or 10x odds, or even 100x odds, is going to pay the house 3 cents in vig. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
The point comes 10. I put up $7 odds and Photoc puts up $5 odds. His roommate puts up $250 laying odds AGAINST the 10. He was going to BUY the ten, but changed his mind at the last minute and bet the don't.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you're a little off on the story, but not too far.

I had 2 on the line with 15 odds and my roommate had 10 dont with 190 lay against the 10. His only words after we high fived were... "now that's [censored] up" LOL

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
You pay 1.414% on the amount you bet on the pass or come.
The fact that you make an additional wager in odds doesn't change that. Trying to combine both bets and coming up with an "overall" EV distorts things. It is a false way of looking at things.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is simply wrong. It's stated in Mason Malmuth / Lynn Loomis book "fundamentals of craps" as well as other texts on the statistics of gambling. The odds bet does in fact lower your overall vig. My copy is loaned out or I would quote the exact page for you, but it's only $5 anyway so perhaps you should pick it up. The layman's explanation is that you're increasing your wager once there's a point and getting better overall odds than if you'd just left your pass line out with no odds. Since there is by definition no vig on the odds, the only place that the overall reduced vig can be coming from is your pass bet.

al

[Knyte260]

You are wrong...

The odds bet lowers the house edge against your total amount of money on the table. But since the amount is now higher (placing 3 or 5 or 10 times odds), a lower percentage edge on that total, will still come out to the edge -EV.

You are right in that you aren't making a bad decision gambling with craps at these stakes however. With free beer and any comps, you could be winning with how slow this game moves.

-Chris

[nmadd]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll send you the half-penny to cover your theoretical loss (so you don't have a heart attack and die because you made a -EV bet).

al

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Good story.
I don't travel to Las Vegas often but when I do, I make sure I spend some time at the cheap craps tables. I know I'm not going to make money but it is easily the most enjoyable game to play (and drink at) with a bunch of friends (or a bunch of strangers for that matter). I don't know how many times I've hugged a complete stranger after they made a couple of passes. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mosta]

[ QUOTE ]

This is simply wrong. It's stated in Mason Malmuth / Lynn Loomis book "fundamentals of craps" as well as other texts on the statistics of gambling. ... My copy is loaned out or I would quote the exact page for you, but it's ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Malmuth et al. would hope earnestly that it doesn't take a citation to authority to settle a dispute over 8th grade level math.

[Dex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You pay 1.414% on the amount you bet on the pass or come.
The fact that you make an additional wager in odds doesn't change that. Trying to combine both bets and coming up with an "overall" EV distorts things. It is a false way of looking at things.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is simply wrong. It's stated in Mason Malmuth / Lynn Loomis book "fundamentals of craps" as well as other texts on the statistics of gambling. The odds bet does in fact lower your overall vig. My copy is loaned out or I would quote the exact page for you, but it's only $5 anyway so perhaps you should pick it up. The layman's explanation is that you're increasing your wager once there's a point and getting better overall odds than if you'd just left your pass line out with no odds. Since there is by definition no vig on the odds, the only place that the overall reduced vig can be coming from is your pass bet.

al

[/ QUOTE ]

Wagering $2 on the pass line (or come), your expectation is -$0.02828, no matter how much you wager on the odds bet.

Your EV described as a *percentage* of the *total* amount wagered (pass + odds) will change depending on how much you bet on odds, of course. But your absolute EV in $ remains the same: -$0.02828.

In other words, you are not gaining anything in terms of $EV by making an odds bet - you are simply increasing variance.

[AsSeenOnTV]

The post was about some guys out having a good time....I think a few of you are wound WAY to tight!

[stickman]

Agreed!

[Photoc]

Can you say...Thread derailment?
And yes, we had a good time, lol