An AQ hand and a "nr"

[chaz64]

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (6.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Seems unlikely anyone has a jack.

River: (9.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

One of the villains typed "nr" after this one, which I took too mean that I got lucky. Of course, I did get lucky, but I was wondering if anyone plays this one differently.

Comments appreciated.

[einbert]

I play it the same. There's no reason to believe you don't have the best hand on the turn.

Anyone who fails to bet or raise to protect their hand then types "nr" is someone you want to have at your table.

[IsaacW]

Betting unimproved overcards is a concept I struggle with, but please bear with me. Are you betting this flop for value because AQs is likely the best hand or are you betting to thin the field and increase the likelihood that you win if you spike an Ace or Queen? Against 5 players you don't have significant folding equity, so I don't think you can ever hope to win this pot right away.

I don't like the turn bet, I don't think that A high is the best hand here often and you didn't pick up a spade for the flush draw.

River plays itself.

[chaz64]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting unimproved overcards is a concept I struggle with, but please bear with me. Are you betting this flop for value because AQs is likely the best hand or are you betting to thin the field and increase the likelihood that you win if you spike an Ace or Queen? Against 5 players you don't have significant folding equity, so I don't think you can ever hope to win this pot right away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I got two players to fold who otherwise would have gotten a free turn card. With the first three checking to me no one seemed very strong, so why not fire?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the turn bet, I don't think that A high is the best hand here often and you didn't pick up a spade for the flush draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt anyone has a jack. I'm only behind an 8 and a PP, and it gives my opponents another chance to fold. I could have a big PP for all they know and I would like A8 to fold.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I am only behind an 8 and a PP, and it gives my opponents another chance to fold. I could have a big PP for all they know and I would like A8 to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

An 8 is not folding here, nor is a PP higher than 8. You should realize that you are betting this turn for value. I think you have the best hand here most of the time, considering that noone else has done anything but call. Once you are called in so many places on the turn, I would have checked the river UI and probably called one bet.

[IsaacW]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I got two players to fold who otherwise would have gotten a free turn card. With the first three checking to me no one seemed very strong, so why not fire?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think your flop bet was necessarily wrong, but you need to have a good reason for it. Folding a couple of players to improve your chance of winning is good, as is trying for a free card.

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt anyone has a jack. I'm only behind an 8 and a PP, and it gives my opponents another chance to fold. I could have a big PP for all they know and I would like A8 to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think A8 or a small/medium pocket pair is folding here, because after all, he's thinking "I've got a full house, how could I lose?" Especially not when the hand history says "Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em" at the top. A turn bet will not fold medium pocket pairs or anyone with an 8. If you are behind and no one has a jack (probably likely given the action to this point), you are drawing to 6 outs. Semibluffs lose value when you have little/no folding equity. I'd check and look for MP3 to give a free card.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Semibluffs lose value when you have little/no folding equity. I'd check and look for MP3 to give a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

A check to induce a river bluff is an interesting idea in this situation, but I think I'm betting here more often than not. You have a strong hand on this board! Especially considering that you haven't been raised or bet into at all. I'm betting it for value and to protect my hand against the probably six-outers. Any decent player is going to raise this turn with an 8.

I think by checking this turn you're giving a free card more often than you're receiving one.

[Akimka]

[ QUOTE ]
River: (9.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB calls.
One of the villains typed "nr" after this one, which I took too mean that I got lucky. Of course, I did get lucky, but I was wondering if anyone plays this one differently.

Comments appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

The MOST interesting part is how would you play it if not A or Q falls on the river. If rags falls on river would you check-call, check-fold or bet-fold to a raise?

[Carmine]

Good hand to post. Had to give it some thought and I'm still not sure. I don't think I like the turn bet. You are not going to get an 8 to fold or a PP no matter how small. Also if someone does have a J they will be happy with the overcalls. An 8 could also go for overcalls (incorrectly so)or planning on C/R/ raising the turn. PP are going to the river passively(incorrectly so). Without hitting one of your six outs your not going to win this. If the other two are fish than it would be possible to win UI and you would have everyone drawing to six outs and you with a small edge because of the Ace.

Check/fold the turn
Check/fold the river. EDIT: I meant had the Q not fallen.

As far as the "NR" comment. You won this hand not because of your good play, but because of their poor play and lack of aggression.

[IsaacW]

Check/folding the turn is bad, because Hero is not behind a jack (or even KK) here very often. If he is behind, he has 6 outs to improve to a winning hand, and though he might chop some of the time, I'd say the remaining Aces and Queens are worth at least 4 outs. Add in the equity that he has if he is currently ahead and calling getting 7.75:1 or 8.75:1 is not bad at all.

[__Q__]

[ QUOTE ]
Check/fold the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

It is probably atleast as likely, prolly more so, that the AQ is the best hand on the flop and turn as it is that someone is holding the 4th Jack.

If no one is holding the Jack, but you are behind, then you most likely have 7 outs, not 6. 3 Aces, 3 Queens, and 1 Jack. Break even odds on 7 outs is 5.6 to 1. Check folding the turn is definitely wrong.

[Carmine]

Yeah, I think I'm letting the results sway me. Once you bet out on the turn and I see he got called in both spots I'm pretty certain we are behind and drawing. We have the odds to draw like you said.

However, you agree that checking the turn would have been best, but I'm not so sure about that now. I think betting out may have been the right thing. I think you can get both players to drop often enough if they were drawing.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the villains typed "nr" after this one, which I took too mean that I got lucky. Of course, I did get lucky, but I was wondering if anyone plays this one differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you played this one fine. A check on the turn probably would have solicited a bet from the PP that may have been out there, due to the comment. And if you're going to call a bet, you might as well bet it yourself.

Let's evaluate the PP's play for a moment.

22-77 on flop: Paired flop lessens chances that anyone hit. If BB was paired a bet would be in order. What about if MP3 had this after flop? What's his correct play? Raise, call or fold? I think I'd be tempted to raise.

99-TT: This makes MP3's post-Hero-bet raise a little clearer since there is less chance of domination by the 8.

KK-AA: clearly these hands would be more aggressive pre-and post-flop.

What would you have done if raised on the flop or turn, as someone with a PP SHOULD do (IMO)? Or if BB had bet out?

BB bets out on flop: Raise in order?
MP1 raises after bet: What to do?

(Dang, something came up, can't contemplate this further)

KO


KO