Strange deep stack KK hand vs a TAG

[Jonny]

Reads on villian is 24% VPIP/ PFR 4% after roughly 100 hands.

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($71.75)
Hero ($260.50)
UTG ($275.50)
MP1 ($789.00)
MP2 ($204.50)
CO ($88.75)
Button ($259.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $62</font>, MP2 folds, SB folds, Hero ?????

What is your plan for the rest of the hand?

[Los Feliz Slim]

I would push right away. But, I am a dumbass.

[DoomSlice]

This might be the one time that I advocate a mini-raise. Push on a non-ace flop.

[TrailofTears]

If you were as deep as him, I would bump it to 100 or so, but this is only if you are comfortable laying it down. You are still pretty deep, so this might work. Again, to commit 40% of your stack and fold PF with KK, you would have to be virtually positive that he had AA. That being said, with your stacks and holdings I would probably push this here too. It would suck to see him hold AA, but he could very well be re-raising with QQ or KK, or maybe AKs or JJ, though these are less likely.

- ToT

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
This might be the one time that I advocate a mini-raise. Push on a non-ace flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would an ace have anything to do with this hand? You're afraid of AA, not AK. An ace hitting on the flop is probably a good thing for you, since it's less likely the other guy had AA, and more likely he had QQ or KK. If you think he could make a big limp-reraise with AK, push here. If you think he has AA, fold here. Only a K-high flop will make you happy here, so play the hand preflop.

[TheWorstPlayer]

He's bullying someone who he thinks is trying to steal from the blinds, almost definitely. Just call and check/raise all-in any flop.

[DrPublo]

He's bullying someone who he thinks is trying to steal from the blinds, almost definitely. Just call and check/raise all-in any flop.

Finally, the right answer. Well said.

The Doc

[TrailofTears]

I guess I don't have enough experience with this type of play (or maybe I am unaware of it), but I just don't see it this way. It seems illogical given the "steal attempt" is from the BB and not the Button, and given the stats of the player. I'm not advocating a fold, necessarily, just more caution than dismissal of the raise as a re-steal. Just my thoughts.

- Trail

[Jonny]

I definately did not think of it as a steal. Here is the rest of the hand. I smooth called the raise PF. The flop came J22. I checked and he pushed, setting me all in for 200 into a 120 pot. Anyone laydown here considering his stats? Seems to me like he could easily put me on QQ or KK PF.

[TheWorstPlayer]

What's his aggression factor/any previous play of aggression? FWIW, I still view it as a re-steal. A raise from the BB is a VERY common steal of several limps.

Edit: This is just about the best flop imaginable. If he has JJ, that's a bummer. If he has AA, you won't be the first person to lose your stack with KK to AA. I can't see him possibly having a 2 here, unless it is 22 which is exceedingly unlikely. I am certainly calling as this is exactly the play that someone who is re-stealing would make. Just because he is TAG, doesn't mean he won't bully someone when he gets the chance.

[Jonny]

I knew he could never have a 2 here. It's AA I'm worried about. You would still say thats a call though?

[fimbulwinter]

I'm calling and checkraising all-in on any non ace board. I'm leading at an ace high board.

fim

[TheWorstPlayer]

What is the rationale for leading at an Axx flop? If he has an ace, he is not folding and if he doesn't, then he is drawing to two outs...

[AncientPC]

Because the A is more likely to be a scare card for the villain rather than the villain flopping a set. It's unlikely that villain is playing back at the hero with AK or AQ.

[fimbulwinter]

given the preflop action, if checked to, do you think villain will bet? will he call your push with any hands you beat?

if you bet into him, how will the pot end if he holds AA, Ax, a PP or a set?
fim

[Jonny]

[ QUOTE ]
given the preflop action, if checked to, do you think villain will bet? will he call your push with any hands you beat?

if you bet into him, how will the pot end if he holds AA, Ax, a PP or a set?
fim

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the villian will always bet when checked to. My plan was to c/r all in on any flop, but then he pushed. I would normally call this, but with his stats (passive), and a huge limp/reraise PF. I don't see how he couldn't have AA. Pretty easy to put me on QQ or KK if you are him IMO. I folded.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Fimbul, can you just be more explicit about the size of bets in the Axx flop scenario? I just can't see how there is possibly enough room to lead at the flop and then fold to a raise, if that is your intention. Especially if we suspect it is a steal in the first place, so he should be quite capable of bluffing on the flop.