Top Pair Against a Maniac

[Mens Rea]

2-5 No Limit (From Memory)

Guy sits down directly to my left. He raises every other pot preflop to $50 and has upped his stack to $1800. I've been patient up to this point, but I'm getting antsy. I feel like I've got him pegged. He is rasing with any 2 suited, and two connected, and any pair at all. If he hits any part of the flop, he bets $100, if he misses totally or picks up any draw, he bets $300. I have yet to see him vary from this. Also, I have him covered.

I pick up J /images/graemlins/club.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif and call the blind. He makes it $75. All fold to me. I call, only because I feel like I have him read well and I'm getting impatient.

Flop is 10 7 6 rainbow. I check to him, and he bets $300. I raise to $900, intending to take it there and almost certain that he will fold. He bitches and moans and fidgets (every time I've seen this, its been truthful - i.e. he is not acting) and calls. I "know" I have him beat at this point.

I push him for his remaining $700 or so dark (before the turn comes out.) The turn is a 7. He thinks for 2 minutes or so and calls off the remainder of his stack.

My questions are these. Knowing this player is a mainiac and having what I would consider a very accurate read, is the call preflop appropriate or is this a situation where it is best to pick up a better starting hand and reraise? After calling with the J10, am I looking for a straight or a flush to continue? I understand that the raise on the flop is questionable, but I was nearly certain that I was good at that point. Thoughts? Finally, I pushed dark on the turn because I figured that he would bet any scare card that fell and I didn't want to check to him and then be put to a decision. I decided that I would do this while he was pondering the turn call. In retrospect, would it have been better to just defend by pushing the flop? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Results to follow.

[B Mando]

"I push him for his remaining $700 or so dark (before the turn comes out.) The turn is a 7. He thinks for 2 minutes or so and calls off the remainder of his stack."

That is just silly. I actually think that was the exact word that DN used to describe John Juanda's dark push at this years WSOP. SILLY

[Mens Rea]

I think pushing dark in a tourney and pushing dark in this situation are two different things. Nevertheless, I'd like to know why you think its "silly" other than what someone else said a Juanda hand.

As I said, I realize this play wasn't the correct one. What I am not sure of is why it is incorrect, and what the correct play would have been.

[PokerFink]

If you are going to get the rest of your stack in on the turn REGARDLESS of what falls, then I like the dark push. It is always best to put the pressure on your opponent, and pushing dark says "I like my hand a lot" and puts maximum pressure on your opponent. Might get him to fold a stronger jack if he has one.

However, for this particular hand, I'm scratching my head as to why you are going to push the turn. You have conflicting reads. One one hand, the villian is a total maniac, and TP is usually good against a maniac. However, you said that when he thought about his actions, it means he has something. If he has something to call your substantial check/raise, it's likely better than your hand. But if you feel you are good and you want to get all in on the turn, then your play is fine IMO.

If you think the villian will pay you off with weaker holdings, I think your line is better than check/raising all in on the flop.

As for said hand between Juanda and Negreanu, Juanda said afterwards he was going to put his money in REGARDLESS of the river card. Therefore, he put maximum pressure on Negreanu to call off his stack.

[PokerFink]

What I am not sure of is why it is incorrect, and what the correct play would have been.

This is hard to answer because the situation is so read dependent. If you strongly feel your jacks are good, and you want to get all in this hand, then your play is a good way to accomplish that.

Another way to get all-in would be to call the flop and check/raise all-in on the turn.

[Kaz The Original]

I do not want to be playing J10c like this against this opponent.

[B Mando]

I didnt mean to come across as a monkey...but...

There are a lot of cards...such as a 7 that can come off the deck that may change your action. By pushing in the dark you leave yourself no options. Now I am not a good reader of people when I play live but what if you see him light up when the 7 comes off and pick up a tell of some sorts? There are a lot of cards that can come the deck that would improve a second best hand. I must admit I did this once when I had AA on a rag board and pushed dark on the turn. Luckily, my opponent called with a worst hand but my friend sitting next to me berated me for the next 3 minutes on how that it a terrible move. After I review this hand though, considering how big the pot is...I dont think its that bad. When I first skimmed through this I got the impression this was an overbet. As usual...I was completely wrong. You were probably going to set him in for the rest of his chips anyways so it didnt really matter if you saw the turn or not.

[Mens Rea]

My thinking on the dark push was as follows:

Because he is a maniac, I can't get away from this hand if I believe I am best on the flop. After seeing his play on previous hands, and without a two-flush on the flop, I would not be able to lay this hand down regardless of what the turn brings. That considered, do you thing the dark push is awful, just bad, or OK. Thanks for the input.

[B Mando]

This time, in this spot, where the pot is about 2K, I dont think a dark push for 700 is that bad. I will never dark push ever again because it seems too hollywood for me but you are definatly going to bet that amount against this opponent anyways so I dont think its that bad...

[willie]

not much to add besides this

i hate pushing in dark

i've done it once with aa on a q xx flop with a large bet called, i was kind of tilting from a bad day so i pushed all in dark and started counting off

when i saw that a Queen fell on the turn i felt like the biggest damn idiot ever (yes his aq did pull a 2 outter, but there is no reason to get broke tilting off all in dark...i was pissed)

so yeah, i won't ever do that again, it was definitely silly.