Strange hand with A6s

[einbert]

Only been around for one orbit, but most of the table seems very strange...very fishy too. No specific reads yet.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

I bet so hopefully button would raise to possibly protect my hand. I didn't threebet because I was very worried about my kicker. Should I have threebet anyway because of all the people staying around for the ride?

River: (17.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

Any value in raising this river? I figured SB had the ace for sure, after his turn checkraise, so maybe button would overcall with something worse.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

[LAGmaniac]

his turn c/r looks more like a made flush than trips. Raise the river.

[sean c]

Einbert I think your post flop play and thinking behind it is spot on maybe with the exception of the river but your right an overcall was likely. I would have wanted more limpers in front of me to play that hand pre plop.

[housenuts]

here's my thinking when debating going for overcall or raising.

you have no idea if the button will call or not. you can go for the overcall, but there is a good chance he won't call and that's all the bets you'll get out of the hand.

or you can raise. this opens the possibility to more bets. first off the original bettor will much more often than not at least call here. so right there you've made as many bets as you would have with the overcall. but you also have the possibility now of the button cold-calling, or the original bettor re-raising. either way you're getting more bets in the middle with the near nuts. only a very small percentage of the time will both players fold to your raise, when the button would have overcalled.

[LAGmaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
here's my thinking when debating going for overcall or raising.

you have no idea if the button will call or not. you can go for the overcall, but there is a good chance he won't call and that's all the bets you'll get out of the hand.

or you can raise. this opens the possibility to more bets. first off the original bettor will much more often than not at least call here. so right there you've made as many bets as you would have with the overcall. but you also have the possibility now of the button cold-calling, or the original bettor re-raising. either way you're getting more bets in the middle with the near nuts. only a very small percentage of the time will both players fold to your raise, when the button would have overcalled.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep

[Fnord]

I used to soft play rivers like that thinking "we're spliting, why feed the rake" or "no way a worse hand calls 2 cold". Now I know better. Don't pass up a chance to let a fishy player make a truely horrible play because too often they'll take you up on the offer.

[ropey]

I don't think you have any value in this hand after the flop. With a raise to your left, two cold-callers, and a player betting back into the raise when the second ace hits the board, I have to think you are at least second best already (to a "good" ace; and possibly an already made flush), with the potential to be much worse off when another club hits the board.

You should be thanking the poker gods for double pairing the board for you to let you get even a piece of this pot; this seems like a prime example of how to dump a lot of money with a wanger of an ace.

-ropey

[John Deere]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to soft play rivers like that thinking "we're spliting, why feed the rake" or "no way a worse hand calls 2 cold". Now I know better. Don't pass up a chance to let a fishy player make a truely horrible play because too often they'll take you up on the offer.

[/ QUOTE ]

In most cases, in multi-way pots with betting (and raising!) on every street, the rake will be capped by the river anyhow.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you have any value in this hand after the flop. With a raise to your left, two cold-callers, and a player betting back into the raise when the second ace hits the board, I have to think you are at least second best already (to a "good" ace; and possibly an already made flush), with the potential to be much worse off when another club hits the board.

You should be thanking the poker gods for double pairing the board for you to let you get even a piece of this pot; this seems like a prime example of how to dump a lot of money with a wanger of an ace.

-ropey

[/ QUOTE ]

I have ten outs against a flush and nine outs to split with a better ace on the turn, do you really think I should fold? Do you think I should have checked this turn and let a club have a free river card?

I agree that I misplayed the river, but I don't see how I could've played the turn any differently.

[ropey]

I think you should have folded to the raise on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I have ten outs against a flush and nine outs to split with a better ace on the turn, do you really think I should fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your outs to the flush are the same outs that split the pot with a better ace. But on the flop, you don't have any of this...you are runner runner from beating a flush, and you need to catch a 6...or in this case runner runner to even split the pot.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think I should have checked this turn and let a club have a free river card?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your dead to another ace anyway.

I think the only way your getting any of this pot is if the board pairs...well, double pairs. After the flop, you didn't even have that going for you; you were still likely behind a better ace. I just think you will easily make more money in the long run (save more money) by folding this on the flop.

-ropey

[ErrantNight]

you hit your runner runner boat and you can't find a raise on this river?

[damaniac]

I disagree. With the button raising the flop, then calling the turn, it screams flush draw, maybe Kc, raising something like KQo? Or who knows, could just be a lag, but if button had an A they are certainly raising the turn. With the SB waiting for the turn to c/r, it looks like a made flush more than anything else. At this point, we have a lot of outs to a boat that more than likely we will win, rather than chop, based on the action.

Looking at this on the flop, the raiser could certainly be raising a high club rather than a better ace, and although we are in a very dicey situation, the pot is pretty big. Folding what could be the best hand, even in a close situation where we may be outdrawn often, doesn't seem right.

Of course, the players could just be morons/maniacs and trying to read their hands is a waste of time.

[Alexthegreat]

I think you won this hand.....The Button probably had a PP with a club in his hand....The SB for sure has a made flush, and if he has an A, it probably wasn't good enough to have you in big trouble....As in you probably had paint outs if he did have an ace.....

I would have mucked a non A, non 6 turn though, and if you are okay with that, good hand my friend...Oh, and raise the river...

results?

[ropey]

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at this on the flop, the raiser could certainly be raising a high club rather than a better ace, and although we are in a very dicey situation, the pot is pretty big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the raiser could be on a flush draw...and yes, the small blind could be slowplaying a made flush. But you have to acknowledge that there is a good likleyhood that you are up against a better ace.

On the flop, there is a good chance that you already beat by a flush...lets not forget that at this point, we need runner runner to beat a flush; if we are behind a better ace, we need to catch a 6, or runner runner.

The time to get out is on the flop...I think you will save a lot of money by folding here in the long run.

-ropey

[Jake (The Snake)]

I think you understand the river must be raised. SB could easily have 44 or 77 or a flush. Plus there is at least a small chance button will still cold-call.