PDA

View Full Version : Believed I played this AA very poorly

QTip
02-20-2005, 05:39 PM
Well...please rip this to pieces...

BB is loose aggressive and UTG is loose passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB
brettbrettr
02-20-2005, 05:42 PM
Given the diamonds and the 4-way aspect of this hand, I think you have to raise the flop.
JackWilson
02-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Raise the flop. The entire hand plays different from there so I don't really know what else to say.
Harv72b
02-20-2005, 05:48 PM
Based on your reads of your opponents, I think you got preflop right. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, though...it's a very rare flop that I will not raise and cap with AA. If the LAG wants to bluff at having a K, fine--use that to charge your diamond draws and hopefully knock out any single /images/graemlins/diamond.gif hands out there (like your LP UTG, holding A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif). It's going to take a flop cap and BB betting into me on the turn before I even think about giving him credit for a K.

Given that you did not raise the flop and you act last on the turn, I don't mind the call there so much. I think it would have played out much differently had you raised the flop, though.

When a loose/passive player bets a 4-flush board on the river, you don't have a diamond in your hand, and you still have the only guy who's shown any aggression postflop yet to act behind you, I wouldn't feel too badly about folding my aces.
brettbrettr
02-20-2005, 05:49 PM
If you were thinking of this post (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=&amp;Number=969383&amp;page=&amp;view= &amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=all) then I think you need to remember that its heads up.
private joker
02-20-2005, 05:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If the LAG wants to bluff at having a K, fine--use that to charge your diamond draws

[/ QUOTE ]

What is this nonsense about charging diamond draws? For every bet that goes into this 4-way pot, diamond draws make money. They put in 25% of the pot with 35% equity. They are happy when you raise.

I'd still raise this flop, but for other reasons. I probably have the best hand at the moment and I'd like to be paid for that.
JackWilson
02-20-2005, 05:55 PM
Hmmm?

I don't see the correlation. What are you talking about?
Harv72b
02-20-2005, 06:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What is this nonsense about charging diamond draws? For every bet that goes into this 4-way pot, diamond draws make money. They put in 25% of the pot with 35% equity. They are happy when you raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where pot equity can get confusing. As I understand it (and I may be wrong, please correct me if I am)...

Assuming that we're right and BB does not have the K (or 77) and Hero's hand is good, a single flush draw would have about 35% equity (a little less, I think, because of the paired board, but no matter). But Hero would have a much higher equity in the pot than the flush draw--closer to 60%, I would guess. So while a raise technically makes a flush draw money, it makes Hero more money. And anyone with two dimaonds will gladly pay it.
JackWilson
02-20-2005, 06:19 PM
That's the way I see it too. They're making money, but they're not making it from YOU.
private joker
02-20-2005, 07:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That's the way I see it too. They're making money, but they're not making it from YOU.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both you and Harv should read this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/favlinker.php?Cat=&amp;Entry=11813&amp;F_Board=micro&amp;Threa d=459301&amp;partnumber=1&amp;postmarker=) for the response at the bottom of Page 1 by Ed Miller. He explains it very well.
JackWilson
02-20-2005, 07:35 PM
private joker:

I think you're missing my point.

[ QUOTE ]
When the flush draw gets multiway action, it makes money on the bets going in just like you do (at the expense of those calling with weaker made hands and weaker draws).


[/ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller
deadmunny
02-20-2005, 08:33 PM
There is NO flop in the world, where if I have AA and someone bets into me I am not raising..... raise the flop,


Regards D
private joker
02-20-2005, 08:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There is NO flop in the world, where if I have AA and someone bets into me I am not raising..... raise the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Hypothetical hand:

You have red AA on the button. 4 limpers to you, you raise, both blinds call, limpers all call. 7 to the flop for 14 small bets.

Flop is 9TJ, all spades. SB checks, BB bets, 4 limpers all call. Are you really raising this flop now? I hope not.
Shillx
02-20-2005, 08:55 PM
Fearing /images/graemlins/diamond.gif's is just silly. 5 cards are known and 2 of them are diamonds. The odds that someone has a diamond draw on this flop is low. The chance that someone has 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif's is 110/(47*46) = .051. So the mean number of people that will have a flush draw of the 3 people in the pot is .151 and the chance that there is a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif draw (at least one) out there is roughly 1 - e^-.151 ~= 14%. Worry about more important things then this.

Brad
deadmunny
02-20-2005, 09:07 PM
Lol......No.. But you made your point /images/graemlins/tongue.gif,

Regards D
sthief09
02-20-2005, 10:07 PM
this really isn't a bad flop to slowplay. there are no straight draws, no overcards against you, 2 pair isn't possible. you're way ahead or way behind. I like calling the flop if you plan to raise any turn card. another advantage is you get information. if BB bets the turn and UTG raises you can be pretty sure you're behind, and possibly fold. you have to raise the turn though. charge single diamonds who will call you. if you get 3-bet, you can probably think about folding but probably have to call. if his opponent caught a 24-1 backdoor flush, it happens. it's not a reason to not raise the flop.
me454555
02-21-2005, 02:26 AM
I was just going to suggest the same line. Call the flop, pop him on the turn, toss it if 3bet.
QTip
02-21-2005, 10:45 AM
That's where my thought process was. I didn't put BB on a King...actually put him on a diamond draw..he was betting come hands very hard. I had full intentions of raising any turn if it was not a diamond....probably should have raised the diamond anyone, and I should have folded the river after LPP bet into me.

He had the Ad.