75o 15-30 hand

[mike l.]

im 2 from the button 9 handed great 15-30 game with 7d5h and i openraise, tight button who's acutely aware of how loose i can play cold calls (as i said he's tight, but not necessarily very good), sb, an awful player in many respects calls, bb folds. 3 handed.

the flop is Qc4d3d w/ two diamonds. sb checks, i bet, button raises, sb cold calls, i call.

the turn is 7h. sb checks, i bet, button calls, sb calls.

the river is 7s. sb checks, i bet, button calls, sb checkraises, button mucks out of turn, i call.

comments?

[Jimbo]

My guess is you got beat by a 5/6 probably suited but not in diamonds. Guess I play too tight for your game. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Raising with that hand seems like doom just waiting to happen.

Jimbo

[Mikey]

Mike, honestly this hand is garbage, playing it the whole way. But I like the style you have, sometimes you will raise with these garbage hands so you can get more action and get action all night long because then they'll never know what you have.

But as far as the river goes.....when the SB checkraises you. You have pause and watch him.....as soon as he checkraised stop before you have to think about putting another chip in and take some time to watch and stare at him. Then when you asses an accurate read hopefully you can RERAISE. I would reraise the river.

[Paul Talbot]

PF: I don't think this is a "good" raise, but I'm not really oppossed to making these steal attempts with garbage now and then. Obviously you are hoping to win the blinds. but against some players you will win on the flop when they miss anyway.

F: I'd also bet. You need to call one small bet with your gut shot here.

T: I wouldn't bet out. You may have 9 outs to win, but you certainly are not going to get a Q to lay down.

R: I'd call as he could easily have you outkicked with A7 or have the 65. Here's hoping he was on AQ, but I would guess nto based on how he played.

[mike l.]

yeah it's definitely trash. im glad you can see how it affects future rounds though because that is how i make money in the games i play.

as for the river 65 never even crossed my mind. this guy wouldve definitely checkraised or even bet the turn if he made the nut straight then. i was worried that he may have made trip 7s on the river as well but with a bigger kicker. that's why i just called.

i called the river and he turned over AA which he angrily crumpled up and threw at the dealer when i showed my 75o. i really like his river play actually. if i were playing against a player i respected more who i thought was capable of checkraising there without a 7 or a straight i wouldve definitely 3 bet the river.

[Jimbo]

I believe Mason stated in one of his essays that "advertising" like this is very overrated, costs more than you gain and should be avoided. I was kinda hoping your results post would be a bit more modest and not explain why you think this is a good play.

Jimbo

[Boris]

"comments?"

Nice suck-out Bro! Runner, runner. How sweet it is.

[mike l.]

"I believe Mason stated in one of his essays that "advertising" like this is very overrated, costs more than you gain and should be avoided"

if done in excess of course it should be avoided. that's true of many things in hold em. but isnt it sklansky who had a hand like 83o and he'd play it like AA every time he picked it up? there's a reason he did that. btw im not really playing the hand above strictly for advertising value, i dont think ive ever done that, i end up advertising plenty without any extra help because i play fairly aggressively and get caught bluffing somewhat regularly. (of course i also get paid off far more than most winning players). i think given the chances i will steal the blinds or get it heads up against a terrible player in the blinds that im a marginal favorite with 75o in this spot in that game. that's why i raised with it in the first place.

i posted the hand because i thought the turn and river plays (both by me and my opponents) were interesting, questionable, and worthy of discussion.

"I was kinda hoping your results post would be a bit more modest and not explain why you think this is a good play."

i think it is a pretty good play for me. i play very well after the flop and many of my opponents dont so i dont mind getting into tough situations postflop, it's proven profitable for me for a couple years now. plus have you ever noticed how stupifyingly dull hold em is you dont get a down in the dirt and play some questionable hands every now and then? if i cant play with some modicum of looseness and win significantly and consistently then i would honestly not play at all. fortunately ive worked hard on my game and have found some interesting ways to enjoy playing hold em and still earn money. it'll all be in my book.

this post sounds very arrogant. believe me i know im not all that and im sure a few of you would consistently destroy me in a ring game. fortunately i dont run up against many of you when i play and im very good at adjusting my play for those times when i do come across a winning player.

[mike l.]

"T: I wouldn't bet out. You may have 9 outs to win, but you certainly are not going to get a Q to lay down."

here're some reasons why i bet the turn. some of these are unlikely but when you add them all up i think i like my play:

--to confuse my opponents, not just for this hand but for when i stop and go on future hands.

--because with a pair of 7s i might have the best hand and i dont want sb to be allowed to hang around for free with an overcard that could beat me when he may fold the turn.

--because button may be on a flush draw and i want to teach him to not try and take free cards against me.

--because button might have something like 99 and i want to give him a chance to lay that down.

--because i have middle pair and a gut shot. that's a bunch of outs if im beat, although some may be bad like a diamond or a 5, they are not definitely bad against just two opponents.

--button plays pretty darn weak postflop so he's not a favorite to raise me on the turn with less than a set.

--my game is all about a lot of betting and raising. i dont check much unless im looking to checkraise or con someone into giving me a free card for fear i might checkraise. so my play on the turn is consistent with my typical play and it will further ensure that i get paid off when i bet my excellent made hands.

[mikelow]

Really now! You fired into a flop with two diamonds and a tiny gutshot draw and Plan B got there. Interesting check raise. Either you were way ahead or the SB has the straight (another trash hand player). I think your overly loose play will catch up to you. Reraise on the river as I think you have the best hand.

Did you win?

[mikelow]

I still think a river reraise is best. 6-5 is unlikely. If it's there, c'est la vie.