1st post fire away I can take it.

[mcflog]

Been lurking for a little while, really enjoy reading here so here goes.

Paradise Poker 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

MP turns over AA for Jacks full
of course I had jacks full of Kings

My thoughts were he didn't raise before the flop I wasn't expecting to c aces turned over how could this have been played better. Should I have reraised the flop bet and represented the set. Thanks for ur help.

[VTDuffman]

You should have raised the pre-flop. KQ is a good hand and you have position on the table sitting at the button. Raising with KQo will hopefully clear out the blinds, and wins more than its fair share.

No reason to think anyone has you beat here. Bet is good, the check-raise is a little unnerving. See this is the problem with not raising, opponent has no reason to think you have a good hand. AA can look much smaller when you're against a pf raiser and a flop like this. KJ, JJ, AJ, and KK - all raising hands have him dominated. I would 3-bet this flop and see if he caps.

Turn is fine. River is fine.

Your lack of pf raise defines this whole hand, I think this whiole thing plays out differently if you do that.

Other than that, good post, and Keep the results out of the post - it taints your responses /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Redd]

Duffman put it way better than I could have, and I agree with him on the pfr and the flop 3-bet.

I just wanted to add that villain's weird preflop slowplay happens from time to time (I actually have someone on my buddy list that raises every hand except he limps AA and KK, heh) and it's most definitely a -EV play.

[btspider]

raise PF.
your flop and river play seem inconsistent since that river card didn't improve your hand.
either 3-bet the flop or don't raise the river.

[tytygoodnuts]

I have played a lot at the paradise .02/.04 tables and I can tell you, you aren't going to find much rhyme or reason in your oppenents play. Relentlessly value bet your good hands.

[VTDuffman]

[ QUOTE ]
Duffman put it way better than I could have, and I agree with him on the pfr and the flop 3-bet.

I just wanted to add that villain's weird preflop slowplay happens from time to time (I actually have someone on my buddy list that raises every hand except he limps AA and KK, heh) and it's most definitely a -EV play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been noticing this more an more on the party micro tables, he was probably going for the limp re-raise preflop. I honestly think that it's a function of too much "Tilt" WSOP, and WPT. It's almost always a -EV play, and really does no good in microlimits.

I'll go for a Limp re-raise in NL, to try to get someone all-in when I have AA or KK, but never in Micro. You need to put the money in when you have the edge in micro.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
your flop and river play seem inconsistent since that river card didn't improve your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It kind of did, though, because once the 3rd jack comes he knows that his king is almost certainly good, so a bet is now in order that wasn't on the flop because his opponent is telling him he has a jack?

But I can't figure out if that means that he played the flop too weakly or if he played the river correctly.

Comments, please. I do this too.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
It kind of did, though, because once the 3rd jack comes he knows that his king is almost certainly good, so a bet is now in order that wasn't on the flop because his opponent is telling him he has a jack?

[/ QUOTE ]

while the river jack means its more likely his opponent was playing a K on the flop, his kicker no longer plays. If he fears this opponent enough to put him on Jx on the flop, then the guy's range on the river is still Jx or Kx. he is splitting at best, so the raise is not for value. it only allows Jx to 3-bet.

so if he thinks his opponent will flop check-raise a worse hand than KQ, he should 3-bet the flop. if he fears the flop check-raise, the river raise is pointless.

[parappa]

I understand this:

[ QUOTE ]
if he fears the flop check-raise, the river raise is pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

But not this:

[ QUOTE ]
If he fears this opponent enough to put him on Jx on the flop, then the guy's range on the river is still Jx or Kx.

[/ QUOTE ]

My reaction in this situation would be to fear the flop check-raise on the flop, but then realize on the river that I was wrong and that I shouldn't have feared the flop check-raise. Since my read was wrong (I'm simply not going to give anyone credit for quads), either: a) I simply know that he has a K or AA or b) he could have a wide range of hands, like perhaps QT or just complete trash. So I raise the river.

I'm in a funny position here: I'm almost certain you're right, but I have no way to really learn the concept that you're using without disagreeing with you.

[ QUOTE ]
so if he thinks his opponent will flop check-raise a worse hand than KQ, he should 3-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but the river J gives us information that we didn't have on the flop. I agree that it's probably worthless, but it seems like I could imagine an almost-identical situation where the 3rd J would make it correct to raise the river, even though we might not've 3-bet the flop.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
My reaction in this situation would be to fear the flop check-raise on the flop, but then realize on the river that I was wrong and that I shouldn't have feared the flop check-raise. Since my read was wrong (I'm simply not going to give anyone credit for quads), either: a) I simply know that he has a K or AA or b) he could have a wide range of hands, like perhaps QT or just complete trash. So I raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

on the river, we have to stretch a bit to add QT and AQ to his range of hands. we'd have to really stretch to put him on a range of hands which we are ahead of 67% of the time (not counting splits or hands that will fold to our raise). if you haven't seen the 67% figure.. its b/c we spend 2 bets to win 1 (we have to call a 3-bet for split potential).

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in a funny position here: I'm almost certain you're right, but I have no way to really learn the concept that you're using without disagreeing with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

i either annoyed or challenged entity a lot in the past by playing devil's advocate.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but the river J gives us information that we didn't have on the flop. I agree that it's probably worthless, but it seems like I could imagine an almost-identical situation where the 3rd J would make it correct to raise the river, even though we might not've 3-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know what you mean. i'd probably raise if somehow someone mucked a J face-up (rather than the river J). the J on board simply kills your kicker and reduces the range of hands you beat.

[parappa]

[quotei know what you mean. i'd probably raise if somehow someone mucked a J face-up (rather than the river J). the J on board simply kills your kicker and reduces the range of hands you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the reply. I read that and said to myself "no it doesn't, because I don't think he'll check raise with a smaller king. I only think that he'll check-raise with a jack or a big king (to be honest, I wouldn't have thought about him having aces in this spot)." And then I realized that this makes the river raise even worse.

I still can't think he'd check-raise me on the flop with anything I beat, so I end up with a call the flop, turn and river line which can't be right, can it? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[yellowjack]

welcome to the forums

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I still can't think he'd check-raise me on the flop with anything I beat, so I end up with a call the flop, turn and river line which can't be right, can it? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, a calldown with position is a powerful line when you are either way ahead or way behind. you won't let QT get a free card and you won't let Kx take a free showdown. you also won't let Jx burn you too badly.