And the Winners Are

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

Ed and I have made our decision. It's a little different than what we first indicated, so here goes.

The selected cover is Akmoose.

Akmoose Cover (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1747030&F orum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=1711544&Search=true&where=&Name=28073&daterange= &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post1747030)

So Akmoose gets a Two Plus Two Shirt, a complete set of books, and $300.

We thought the three covers by traceone were also terrific and have decided to also make him a winner and plan to use at least one of these for a future book. So traceone gets the same prize as Akmoose.

Traceone covers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1727239&F orum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=1711544&Search=true&where=&Name=27845&daterange= &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post1727239)

Alternate traceone cover (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1727362&F orum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=1711544&Search=true&where=&Name=27845&daterange= &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post1727362)

We also thought the pokeropus cover was terrific and it was a tough decision. So we're going to award Mr. Opus four shirts. (The Two Plus Two logo shirts come in four colors.)

PokerOpus cover (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1727531&F orum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=1711544&Search=true&where=&Name=11257&daterange= &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post1727531)

Two other great covers were by illunious and Leavenfish. They will each get two shirts.

Illunious cover (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1737104&F orum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=1711544&Search=true&where=&Name=5307&daterange=& newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev =#Post1737104)

Leavenfish cover (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=books&Number=1733153&F orum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=1711544&Search=true&where=&Name=13334&daterange= &newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post1733153)

Other winner ups who will each get one shirt are RobMonge, jdl22, Nagoo81, Obliky, deaner03, nolanfan34, glitch, and jackwilson.

A special cat award that is worth one shirt goes to smiely,

And the worst cover award which doesn't deserve anything but which will get a shirt anyway goes to BusterStacks.

By the way, the shirts come in four colors: Ash (which is a grey), maroon, light blue, and black.

I'll sent a PM to all winners so that we can get your address. I'll also be talking to our two big winners Akmoose and traceone.

Best wishes,

Mason and Ed Miller

[i wanna be me]

Congratulations Akmoose - looks like I should stick with AQs a little longer than I'd like!

wanna

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]


And the worst cover award which doesn't deserve anything but which will get a shirt anyway goes to BusterStacks.



[/ QUOTE ]

Great line!

[Jack of Arcades]

I don't think I'm alone when I say that I believe you've made an error.

[Sandstone]

Terrible, absolutely terrible choice.

Traceone's designs are clearly the cleanest and most professional of the lot and an easy choice above the competition.

Me thinks you would do well hiring someone with experience in marketing to make these kinds of decisions for you.

[nolanfan34]

I don't have a problem with the winning cover, if the goal was to pick something that looks more like a beginner's book. I'm betting Traceone's designs might be for the NL book David and Ed have talked about?

But - I hope you fix the cards on the cover, because the AQ is from a different deck than the flop cards are, and that looks funny.

[ClaytonN]

4% of posters thought akmoose's cover was the best.

With all due respect Mr. Malmuth, akmoose's design looks like absolute garbage compared to traceone's work.

That's not to say akmoose's work is bad, it's just to say it's nowhere near the level that ought to be used for a book cover (in one's own opinion).

This is a big, big mistake. Not to piss in anyone's cheerios, but I had to say it. And I'm being nice when I'm saying it, too.

[ClaytonN]

Oh, and I love how you closed the submissions immediately after akmoose.

Please tell me that was just coincidence.

[jar]

I'm glad Oliver the poker cat got the recognition he so richly deserves.
picture (http://www.kjdtech.com/~vgalluzz/images/bookcover3kitty.jpg)

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and I love how you closed the submissions immediately after akmoose.

Please tell me that was just coincidence.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a pathetic insinuation.

[k_squared]

Nothing personal, but I also think this was a poor choice... I showed two friends who know nothing about poker the two covers and asked them which they would buy... and one response was - 'the pretty one' and the other was 'the one with the cool cover' both referring to trace's designs...

that being said, the cover won't determine
if I buy the book... but then again I am already a poker enthusiast.

It would be interesting (although also a bit silly) to print the book with both covers and see which sells better! I'd buy the pretty one.

-k_squared

[ClaytonN]

I happen to think it's perfectly legitimate, but to argue that would be digressing needlessly.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


And the worst cover award which doesn't deserve anything but which will get a shirt anyway goes to BusterStacks.



[/ QUOTE ]

Great line!

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe he gets a shirt. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

I want one.
Maybe I should get one for... umm... hmm.

All of the time I spend helping out these great forums?

Bah.
It was worth a try.

[Mike Gallo]

Mason,

I love the cover.

I posted about it in OOT in a response to Clayton.

When do I get my shirt? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BusterStacks]

Heck yeah, I knew mspaint would come in handy one of these days. w00t!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi AC:

It will be a few days but you will have an opportunity to get one. It won't be too expensive.

Best wishes,
Mason

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi AC:

It will be a few days but you will have an opportunity to get one. It won't be too expensive.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha!

Thanks, but it's just not the same.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi k_S:

I think you're missing what happening. We do intend to use the traceone covers on new books which will be coming in a few months.

best wishes,
Mason

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi k_S:

I think you're missing what happening. We do intend to use the traceone covers on new books which will be coming in a few months.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

This means his covers are going to be saved for some of the 'bigger' upcoming 2+2 books. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of his covers on the NL book Sklansky and Miller are working on.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Nolan:

You've hit the nail on the head. We felt that the traceone's designs were a little too sophisticated for a beginners book, but would be very good for something like the no limit book that David and Ed are working on.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Clayton:

That was a coincidence. I announced on Sunday (or was it Monday) that submissions would be closed at the end of Wednesday.

Best wishes,
Mason

[oreogod]

Please tell me you are going to touch up the winning cover...it looks to much like bad cgi...not to knock it, I like the idea, but a little work would go a long way.

And yes, u better use some Traceone in the future.

[kurosh]

That cover winning over all the other ones is absolutely f[/i]ucking ridiculous.

[mosch]

[ QUOTE ]
And the worst cover award which doesn't deserve anything but which will get a shirt anyway goes to BusterStacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bollocks. my entry (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1717418&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1) is clearly the worst.

I'm never coming back here again. Until tomorrow.

[Stork]

mosch, I actually liked yours alot- seriously.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi oreogod:

There will probably be adjustments made on all the covers that we use.

Best wishes,
Mason

[jasonHoldEm]

I think the winner is nice, it wasn't my top choice (traceone) but since you're using his for another book I'll let this one slide. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Good luck with the launch.

J

[Beach-Whale]

Good choice Mason. It's a "fun" cover. I like it.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
There will probably be adjustments made on all the covers that we use.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is to be expected. A critique of all covers by 'disinterested' parties would be wise. Another note about the cover chosen - The Ace/Queen is 'backwards' (or it feels backwards to me) along with being a different design from the community cards (already mentioned) and this adds a discontinuity to the cards that detracts from the overall layout and quality of the cover. I sure hope this will be addressed. The ‘suits’ are also too large, in my opinion.

In addition, the book cover design should be placed next to other poker books, or along a shelf of books that will be competing with your book for space, to better judge the quality of the design and the eye appeal it has over the competition. You can easily make up a ‘fake book’ with the winning design and waltz down to the local Barnes & Noble and do some excellent marketing experiments on your own. Send Ed Miller on this errand so he can pick up some more P.G. Wodehouse novels. You probably have him slaving away so much at that stolid and textbook style writing that so dominants poker works that he desperately needs a break to freshen his outlook and calm his nerves. I’m concerned that you are rotting away the best part of Ed’s mind.

I will review the manuscript of this new entry into the poker book bilge sweepstakes currently polluting the market, if you will send me a free copy of the completed work. Two Plus Two books always stand out as the best, but you should try and distance yourselves even more from the vast amount of drivel that so overwhelms the poker marketplace. To that end, I have some pithy quotes, from sources ancient, modern, and extraterrestrial, that would add zest and wit to chapter headings, section titles, and the ubiquitous dull looking charts and tables that always accompany poker tomes. Perhaps I could also spruce up the footnotes - though that task has less appeal.

Best Regards,

-Zeno

[pokerOpus]

Thanks for the shirts!

[pastabatman]

Well, it's your biz, and your choice, but all I can say about the winner is 'yuck'. I understand you'll be using traceone's designs for future books, but he gave you three - why not 'spend' one on what could end up being one of your bestsellers? I think trying to make this look like a 'happy-friendly-kiddy' book for newbies is a mistake. Newbies have taste too.

BTW, some of the comments have been pretty nasty, and way out-of-line, IMHO. Maybe your covers aren't pretty, but damn, you sure know what to put inside. Your reputation sells more books than any cover ever will. It's not like the other publishers have particularly high standards either. I almost get the feeling there's some kind of 'ugly-chic' when it comes to poker books, as if to look cool would actually be un-cool. Kind of the 'dogs playing poker' school of design.

Cheers,
Pasta

[traceone]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the great feedback you guys gave!!! I was really surprised how everyone fought for me, that was great. This was a great little contest and was happy to be apart of it. I just would like to say thanks to Mason for this opportunity to do this. I know i am not a regular poster but i really have been reading the boards for a while now. That are a lot or great insights on this board and it sure has helped my game.

I just wanted everyone to know that I am a professional. I’m a Associate Creative Director at the 3rd largest ad agency in the world. Just thought i should say something because some people really thought Mason should hire a professional designer. I just thought this would be awesome to do, being that i love poker and all.

I’m a little surprised at the design that was chosen, I really think illunious cover was one of the only ones that had a real design sense and nice typography to it(besides mine of course /images/graemlins/grin.gif ). But hey, I cant complain.

Congratulations to all the winners, nice work.

Thanks again,

TraceOne /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Traceone:

We thought your covers were just terrific and have big plans for them. When we get a chance to talk, we'll talk more, and who knows, there might be opportunities in the future for you to do additional work with us.

best wishes,
Mason

[jdl22]

Looks like the end of the road for the cover contest.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi jdl22:

At least for a while.

We had planned on having more, but we got so many good covers it seemed a shame not to reward the work. In fact, some of the covers we didn't select were definitely worthy cover material.

On the other hand, we are planning to put out more books in the near future than what we use to do in the past. So we may need another cover contest sooner than you think.

best wishes,
Mason

[deacsoft]

I do like the winning selection. I just thought it looked a little "techy" and would be more fitting for a title that dealt with on-line poker.

[jasonHoldEm]

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, we are planning to put out more books in the near future

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mason,

Would you be able to give us an updated timeline of the books coming out this year? Sorry if you've posted this already, I don't read this forum as often as I should and I'm curious.

Thanks,
Jason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Jason:

This is all subject to change.

Getting Started in Hold 'em by Ed Miller: late March

Harrington on Hold 'em. Volume II: May

Not yet titled but no limit book by David Sklansky and Ed Miller: late summer

Greg Raymer's book: I'm guessing late 2005

Book by Alan Schoonmaker that will be a collection of many of his columns: sometime in 2005

Other books that we might accept: who knows

Best wishes,
Mason

[DavidC]

Maybe a new picture of yourself and David while you're at it?

I suggest on a beach with lots of women in bikinis and a TON of poker chips, but no cards.

If anyone asks you why you have chips but no cards, tell them that when you're as good as you and Dave, you don't need cards. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DavidC]

I just want you guys to know how disappointed I am that Moss Factor didn't get a shirt. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cudos, Moss.

--Dave.

[mmcd]

...the pistols?

[yeltzen]

Too sophisticated for a beginner's book!? Do you realize that the cover is practically the only thing that sells a book to someone that knows very little about Hold'em? They can't tell the difference between one book or the next. You need to hire that tranceone guy for all of your covers.

[TransientR]

I'm not a fan of the winning cover, but I also don't think some of the nastier comments are called for.

That said, if I wanted to get started in Hold-em, knew nothing about 2+2 publishing, that cover would not scream "buy me."

Frank

[oreogod]

This is true...I agree with Traceone in saying the illuminous covers really were the runner up. Im going to buy the book anyway, so in the end the cover wont really matter, but it will be the ugly duckling on my poker bookshelf.

I know u have plans for Traceones covers, I think it will be really intresting to see one of his covers on a two plus two book.

Plus come to think of it, this winning cover is not going to fit stylisticly with the others once they are released. (the current twoplustwo covers are neutral so I dont really see them clashing...but think about this winning cover side by side at the store with the eventually covers...be intresting eye candy thats for sure.)

[yeltzen]

The only thing that cover screams is - "LOOK MOM I LERNED ME HOW 2 YOOS PHOTOSHOP!!!!!!!!!"

Now I'm banned. Good for me.

[Bukem_]

The cover looks low-budget and if I didn't know better, I would assume the content would be even worse.

I don't think any of your previous covers have been anything special, but I thought they all did a good job of informing the potential buyer that they would be getting high quality contect from winning expert poker players.

I don't get that idea at all from this cover.

I agree on Traceone's covers being more fitting for a NL book. I thought the Illunious cover was simple, sharp and well suited for the upcoming book.

[Leavenfish]

Wow...I'm taken aback by some of the more nasty comments and agree with others who have already said as much.

I happen to know the person who won the contest and as they have a good heart and are quite rightly proud and happy their design was chosen; I personally hope they never see those comments.

Me, I have been involved in many internet forums over the years and am well aware that...well, lets just say that the best side of people does not always come thru when it comes to impersonal internet discussion.

I think Mason has done a good job of explaining why this design was chosen over Traceone's for this particular book and that Trace's was more fitting of some of the titles 2+2 will be coming out with in the near future and that they will be used at that time. Fair enough.

I also believe that newbies -- particularly those whose only exposure to Texas Hold'em at this point may have been shows such as very popular "Celebrity Poker Showdown" -- will soon find this book with it's bright, inviting cover in bookstores across American...and that it may well become 2+2's all time best seller!

Of course, Ed's sage wisdom therein might well have someting to do with that as well in the end. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

---Leavenfish

[pastabatman]

Ok, I guess we'll have to accept that you're not backing off your choice for the cover. But, please do yourself a favor and do some serious re-work on it. For starters, fix the title - it just blends in too much with all the other scattered verbiage in the cluttered layout. If it's not immediately obvious to 'fresh eyes' what the title is, you've got a serious problem. And get rid of those 5 cards under the title - they add nothing but clutter.

This choice is just so amateurish. Good amateur, but still amateur.

[maryfield48]

[ QUOTE ]
I almost get the feeling there's some kind of 'ugly-chic' when it comes to poker books, as if to look cool would actually be un-cool. Kind of the 'dogs playing poker' school of design.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are on to something there.

[theRealMacoy]

Hello Gentlemen,

Congratulations to the winners!

As much as I liked Traceone's designs I must agree with Mason as I didn't think they suited an intro book. This being said I would not have chosen the cover that won. Although somewhat distinctive the graphics simply look a little too 80's high-tech (now kiche?) for my liking. Instead, I was a big fan of Illuminous' cover. The design elements were very clean and straightforward and seemed to suit an intro book.

Ultimately, if you are the publisher of a book then you get to choose the cover. Period. This is not an issue decided by a vote. All the vitriolic behaviour regarding covers picked or not picked seems a little sophmoric.

Congratulations once again to the winners.

Cheers,
the Real Macoy

[illunious]

I think the cover is unique and has great potential.

There's a few elements of the design that in my mind could be improved: hard to read text, mismatched/pixelated card graphics, and overuse of drop shadows. These elements of the design are definitively bad in my mind.

If this stuff is reworked in the final cover I think it will look great.

Congrats Akmoose!

It was a fun contest. Thanks for the kind comments on my design everyone, and thanks Mason for the T-Shirts!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi illunious:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
and thanks Mason for the T-Shirts

[/ QUOTE ]

These are not T-shirts. They are polo shirts and are very high quality. You'll be impressed.

Best wishes,
Mason

[The T.A.]

Hi Mason,

I'm not sure if this has been asked yet, but what will Greg Raymer's late 2005 book cover?

Thanks.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi illunious:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
and thanks Mason for the T-Shirts

[/ QUOTE ]

These are not T-shirts. They are polo shirts and are very high quality. You'll be impressed.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they made of hemp?

[The Dude]

Mason,

Are these the same polo shirts that you were wearing in Vegas last week?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Dude:

Yes.

Best wishes,
Mason

[steamboatin]

How about's Steamboatin's "How to lose a 3x shirt"?

I am going to steal all the Bad Beat Stories from the Archives.

You might not be interested but I figure Helmuth's publisher might go for it.

[RollaJ]

I dont see why people would complain about the winner. It is very nice, eye grabbing, futuristic, and crisp (Iknow thats more of a lettuce attribute, but still) There were so many great entries, to critisize a choice is silly. I think it is leaps and bounds over any other cover they have used in the past

[sammy_g]

Mason,

I have to say that I'm thoroughly disappointed you did not pick BusterStacks' cover. I hope you consider this eye-catching design for a future book.

Regards,
Sam

[jasonHoldEm]

[ QUOTE ]
Harrington on Hold 'em. Volume II: May

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Mason, just got my copy of the first book and I'm already really looking forward to vol 2 (as well as Sklansky/miller's NLHE book).

J

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason,

I have to say that I'm thoroughly disappointed you did not pick BusterStacks' cover. I hope you consider this eye-catching design for a future book.

Regards,
Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it rules that he's hooking him up with a shirt!

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted everyone to know that I am a professional.

[/ QUOTE ]
We're all shocked, I assure you /images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]

I’m a little surprised at the design that was chosen, I really think illunious cover was one of the only ones that had a real design sense and nice typography to it(besides mine of course /images/graemlins/grin.gif ). But hey, I cant complain.


[/ QUOTE ]

These are pretty much my thoughts, too. I really thought the illunious and traceone covers were significantly better than the rest of the entries. The winner here is just too "busy" for my tastes. Between the drop shadows, the 3d suits, the grid background, and the text running from the background to the suits there's just way too much going on. The illunious entry seems cleaner and more coherent, and and I find it much more appealing.

I hope the cover gets simplified some before the book's published.

edit - I should add that with the text/shadows/cards/etc cleaned up, the winning cover could be one I'd like. It just feels like less of a finished product right now.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

Let me make a general comment on this. In our business we have a reputation for being somewhat difficult to work with. That's because when we accept a manuscript we don't print it and we're not done. What happens is that our acceptance starts a process to make the book better, and it can be a very difficult process for the author. But when we're done and the book is released, our authors are quite happy we and they did the additional work.

Related to this I just watched someone from Forbes magazine state on Fox's O'Riely that while thousands of books get published each year, very few even cover their expenses. I can't help but think part of the reason for that is simply the effort to make the final product the best book possible is not there.

The same thing will happen with the covers that we have accepted. This includes the Akmoose and the three Traceones. What you currently see is only the initial product, not the final.

Best wishes,
Mason