A variation of ed millers example

[gamblore99]

My brother was reading small stakes hold'em and came across one of the examples he gives.

One player limps, another raises. You cold call with Q7s. Both blinds and limper calls.

Flop J 7 5 (1 of your suit)

Preflop raiser bets, and its your move.

Ed says the correct play is to raise. and I agree. Me and my brother disagree what you should do if all the limpers are ultimate loose passive call stations, who will never fold or raise. What do you do now?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do now?

[/ QUOTE ]
Raise for value.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do you do now?

[/ QUOTE ]
Raise for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

You very well could have the best hand here. It's going to be hard to read their hands on the turn and river, but here against three random hands and one decent PFR hand, you're good.

40,234,940 games 13.907 secs 2,893,143 games/sec

Board: Jc 7d 5h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 28.2535 % [ 00.28 00.00 ] { AA-99, AKs-ATs, KQs, AKo-AJo, KQo }
Hand 2: 24.6364 % [ 00.24 00.00 ] { Q7s }
Hand 3: 15.6926 % [ 00.15 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 4: 15.7025 % [ 00.15 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 5: 15.7151 % [ 00.15 00.01 ] { random }


---

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Me and my brother disagree what you should do if all the limpers are ultimate loose passive call stations, who will never fold or raise. What do you do now?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the bottom part of the cover of the book say? Does your brother think it was written on how to crush tighter players?

b

[Hulk Hogan]

You raise for information and value, not just value. With such terrible stations, a cold call of your raise tells you you are probably behind, and a reraise from the raiser does the same.

Simplistic answers like "reraise for value" are totally unhelpful and provide no insight on how to play the hand correctly from the flop on.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
One player limps, another raises. You cold call with Q7s

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe in this example, the hero has posted a late position blind, not coldcalled. There is no way I'd coldcall with this hand.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You raise for information and value,

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are the only reasons you raise this?

I think you missed one.

b

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
if all the limpers are ultimate loose passive call stations, who will never fold or raise .

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You raise for information

[/ QUOTE ]

Anybody else see the problem here?

[JackWilson]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody else see the problem here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to comment on it. The "raising for information" comment seems ridiculous in this context.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
The "raising for information" comment seems ridiculous in this context.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does. "Raise for value" is to the point and correct.

Polonius: Brevity is...wit!

[jskills]

I'm confused. Why cold-call a raise with Q7s?

[brettbrettr]

If this is the first example in the book then he says pretty clearly that making this call is wrong. He then says, on that specific flop, that calling a bet is worse than raising.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One player limps, another raises. You cold call with Q7s

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe in this example, the hero has posted a late position blind, not coldcalled. There is no way I'd coldcall with this hand.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

bernie,

in the example, hero coldcalls, and calls the flop. it was to point out that although the preflop coldcall was bad, the postflop error of the hand is by far the greater error.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
in the example, hero coldcalls, and calls the flop. it was to point out that although the preflop coldcall was bad, the postflop error of the hand is by far the greater error.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Curiousity got me to look it up. It's a very good intro hand for that section of the book. I think I got it (handwise) confused with another hand he did where he was posting with Qxs in late.

Your brother obviously doesn't yet understand that getting coldcalls to this raise isn't exactly a bad thing.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
He then says, on that specific flop, that calling a bet is worse than raising.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's also worse than the preflop coldcall.

b