How did you get that big stack?

[LoveMyAces]

There was a recent question about how many times the buyin was your biggest stack. My question is how did you win all those hands? There was a player on party with 26 buy-ins this morning. I see these big stacks quite often and wonder if there is a strategy to get there or is it mostly luck? I notice that most of the players with the big stacks raise a lot more but when I try this I always miss my hand about as far as it can be missed and end up throwing away raise after raise. What is the big stack secret?

[thenlguru]

Clever gambling. You must be willing to push your draws hard in correct spots, bluff, take value with non-nuts hand and not be worried about chance that you lose your buyin.

Thats about it there is no big secret hiden.

[Acesover8s]

Often a big stack is created when two medium sized stacks collide. Which is why it is important to take risks to build up a decent sized stack in a capped buyin game when the larger stacks are the worse players.

[stone_7]

I swa the same guy this morning. he was up to 725 on a 25 buyin table on party poker. He was just pushing everyone around with his stack so I left. It seems that at some point he would be able to manhandle everyone at the table with the sheer size of his stack. So at some point it should start to grow faster than it would if he had to alwas showdown the best hand.

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
I swa the same guy this morning. he was up to 725 on a 25 buyin table on party poker. He was just pushing everyone around with his stack so I left. It seems that at some point he would be able to manhandle everyone at the table with the sheer size of his stack. So at some point it should start to grow faster than it would if he had to alwas showdown the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see people say this a lot, but really it doesn't make much sense. If I have a 25BB stack it doesn't matter how big your stack is, because only 25BBs of it is ever going to concern me. Big stacks only become scary when you are ALSO a big stack and uncomfortable with playing deep stack poker.

All else being equal a SMALL stack has an advantage over a big stack.

[stone_7]

It may be a purely psychological edge but when I see him raise the entire pot preflop on every hand he plays and then repot it on the flop I know I am going to have my entire stack in there if I want to play a hand. In addition I will almost always be calling all in and not raising someone else all in. Part of why I have trouble with PLO is that I have a sever aversion to calling for all of my stack while on a strong draw. I know I may be "ahead" but I hate calling and not being the aggressor in ths situation. Thus I know that others are feeling the same way. It was obvious from the play of every hand that he was intimidating others at the table and winning lots of pots on the turn from people terrified to put their whole stack in. regardless of whether or not this is correct from a mathematical perspective or not it is what was happening on that table. Big stacks just receive a lot of respect from us fish and we are almost always loathe to attack the big stack at the table for fear of losing all our chips and because we assume that anyone capable of winning $725 (which is more than my bankroll) at one table is cetainly better at poker than we are. Thus it becomes very easy for the big stack to push people at the table around. I suppose once I start accumulating big stacks I will learn how to play with and against one but for now I will just find a game where noone is a huge winner yet.

[LoveMyAces]

I played on that table for awhile and was not intimidated. I doubled my stack early and won one more hand then quit $40 dollar winner after folding 30 crap hands. When they start raising every hand they are playing some lousy hands. If you can catch them and use their aggression against them you can pick up some pots. I play premium hands and lay them down on a missed flop in this situation.

Nobody is turning loose of their big pot secrets here!! Come on we won't tell anybody. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is turning loose of their big pot secrets here!! Come on we won't tell anybody.


[/ QUOTE ]

What secrets do you think are out there to be found?

Big stacks are caused by either:
1) Lots of patience and grinding.
2) When two decent sized stacks get involved in big confrontations (set vs. wrap etc)
2) A willingness to make big gambles by one or more players. The more variance you add to your game the more your stack will fluctuate both ways. Some of the players who have been mentioned as having huge stacks at certain times have also gone through many many buyins in other sessions.

[WSOPWinner2005]

[ QUOTE ]
I played on that table for awhile and was not intimidated. I doubled my stack early and won one more hand then quit $40 dollar winner after folding 30 crap hands. When they start raising every hand they are playing some lousy hands. If you can catch them and use their aggression against them you can pick up some pots. I play premium hands and lay them down on a missed flop in this situation.

Nobody is turning loose of their big pot secrets here!! Come on we won't tell anybody. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I would kill for a game like this.. Party is infamous for them LOL... Especially PLO! In the long run it works in your favor. However tonight, the EXACT opposite, every idiot tore me up lol.. Cost me $450 and I was + 250 at one PLO8 table until I dropped it and my buyin to OP's playing as AAA88 said (pushing average/below average stacks around with very strong drawing hands that have already connected somehwat). A 2 outter here, 3 outter there, and the killer one outter ... ugh .. Oh yeah this was stars not party as they seem to be more realistic to me lately and I am prepping myself for some B + M Play ...

Figures aren't that bad when you think of NLHE, but in Omaha those were some tough hits lol .. Especially in split games and we are talking about them grabbing half the pot and instead getting their "$$$$ Card" either cause no low was out or they banked their wheel /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Tommorrow is another day, hopefully a better one....

[WSOPWinner2005]

BTW, That huge stack is either a very good player who plays agressive with the right hands or he is a nut. There is no in between...

When u sit at the table with a stack like that make sure you aren't throwing your chips hard into 2nd nut hands against the big stack just because he seems to be pushing people around. Analyze their play for a bit... You can usually pick the maniacs out in no more than 5 minutes.. Some maniacs will hibernate than go on ape [censored] binges.

If you ahve a maniac with a deep stack be prepped to rebuy but it will be profitable, just hope he doesn't leave after hitting a lucky hand agst you.. .

[LoveMyAces]

[ QUOTE ]
What secrets do you think are out there to be found?


[/ QUOTE ]

Acesover I know there are no real secrets but was hoping for some good stories and maybe some insight. I think they are rushes gone wild. I have had some short lived rushes but never any sustained wins.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, That huge stack is either a very good player who plays agressive with the right hands or he is a nut.

[/ QUOTE ]
I quit playing PLO8 because every time I hit a great hand half the pot went elsewhere. In one pot I remember putting $150, splitting and my profit was $1.50! Talk about pissing in the wind!

[ QUOTE ]
take value with non-nuts hand

[/ QUOTE ]
thenlguru-- I tried that on a second nut hand last night and it cost me $40! LOL /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jdock99]

At the party poker $25 buy in games it is not uncommon to have between 4-6 people go all in on a single hand, creating at least 1 large stack (sometimes 2, due to side pots). Interestingly, 2 large stacks will often collide and go all in pre-flop specifically because 1 or more small stacks pushed the action. For example, a large stack may raise small, 4 or 5 callers, then a $25 stack will go all in, then the large stack will call or raise pot, and everyone else, including another large stack, will call all in because pot committed. (Actually, they probably go all in because they want to gamble and potentially quintiple up, and the fact they are actually getting correct odds due to all the dead money from the initial calls is of secondary concern)

[CCx]

heh, i'm in the middle of my biggest PLO session ever on stars right now...1/2 PL table - bought in for 150 and am up to 1500 - have been running pretty well but also continuing to play aggressively - hit a few big hands in the beginning, lost a few, then hit a few bigger ones (~300) to build to around 900 ...the table continues to fill with people who have no clue how to play the game, and who are fantastic at telling you via massive overbets that they've made the nuts so not getting caught in drawing hands is much easier - once i got to about 500 i have been able to use the stack to push around the smaller stacks who buy in for the minimum or just over the minimum - it's almost like tourney play - just continuing to build...

[Walter]

how do you overbet with the nuts in PLO?

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
It may be a purely psychological edge but when I see him raise the entire pot preflop on every hand he plays and then repot it on the flop I know I am going to have my entire stack in there if I want to play a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a wonderful situation for you actually. Do you see why? /images/graemlins/wink.gif