the check/3-bet throws me for a loop

[jaxUp]

Table is playing fairly loose, with spots of aggression. Seems like the players know how to handle themselves.

Crypto 1/2

Hero is UTG+2 with 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, 2 calls, 2 folds, 1 call, 1 fold, BB checks.

flop comes 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

checked to Hero, Hero bets, 3 call

turn comes A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

checked to hero, hero bets, all 3 call

river is 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

checked to hero, who bets, next to act raises, and BB throws out the old check/3-bet play. other guy folds and it's two to me. By my tally there's about 15BB in there.

The players are good enough that I could see the first raiser smoothcalling until the river in order to get others to stay along witha flopped straight, but I can't really see him calling preflop with a hand that flops a straight. I guess he could have a set also.
More worriesome (spelling?) is the check/3-bet by the BB who could conceivably have flopped the str8. am I good often enough here? I was crapping my pants on this one, and could see myself actually being 3rd best here. What would you do and why?

[shadow29]

You're getting 7.5:1 on your call. I probably call, kick the dog, and make a note on all the players.

[_bustedflush_]

No fun. I call but it's all about me. I'd be more on tilt watching two pair take this with me out than losing to a flopped straight or miracle set of 8s with me in. Then change.

[jaxUp]

Alright, I figured a calldown was in order, if just for sanity's sake. I showed my set, the first raiser showed A8 for top 2, and the BB mucked and I couldn't check (God I hate crypto). MHIG!!

[memphis57]

[ QUOTE ]
More worriesome (spelling?) is the check/3-bet by the BB who could conceivably have flopped the str8. am I good often enough here? I was crapping my pants on this one, and could see myself actually being 3rd best here. What would you do and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

sp: worrisome

I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that there are a number of people who consider raising to be rude and who respond by raising your raise, no matter what their cards, no matter the circumstances. This is especially true with pre-flop raises, but I've also seen it on later streets and even the river such as here. Has anybody else seen this? I'm still new at Poker so I don't want to try to come off as some old pro whispering the tricks of the trade, but this seems to me to be a type of tilt that's worth targeting, and below is how I would deal with it. I've tried this so far 8-10 times with various people, with 2 or 3 notable successes when the circumstances worked out just right.

Analytically, I think the way to look at these raises is the same as a bluff raise only better because it is somewhat tilt-induced and thus not prepared for. Like the bluff raise, it deprives you of information but generally works in your favor as long as you recognize it for what it is and play your cards rather than your opponents (kind of like when you're up against a maniac). Since had showed no sign of strength before now, his 3-bet indicates either that he holds 88 of that it's a tilt-bluff-raise. A little better read beforehand might help you decide which one but, lacking that, I think you have to put at least a 50-50 chance on the bluff. Thus, you have to play your cards without opponent info and a set of 6s definitely seems a likely winner, so I think you should always call here.

Even more important (profitable) is what you do after the hand. If he does have trip 8s, you note the odd play and respect it more next time (however, I'm not so sure a check/3-bet is all that different from a check/raise - if you go into a street with a really strong hand intending to check/raise, and it comes back to you raised already by people whose hands you think you beat, is it really so bad to 3-bet it?). If he doesn't, however, consider the possibility of it being a "revenge raise." Wait a few hands, which hopefully will pass with little raising, and then the next time you get a strong hand with him in throw another "unfair" raise at him. Ideally, a check-raise with you acting just before him or heads up with him. If he is the revenge-raiser type, don't be surprised if he caps the street and then calls you down with a 7-high or low pair or something.

[coolhandj]

Since you are getting 7.5/1 on the river, your cards only have to hold up once out of every 7.5 times to make this call correct. I feel that in this situation you will not win once out of 7.5, so i like a fold here. If it were only one bet back to you, meaning you only have to win 1/15 times to break even, then i feel you should definatly call.

[Goru666]

I cap river, they play exactly like someone who turned or rivered two pair (Ax). Rivered straight or set 8s happen so rarely I pay them off when it happens, besides I think 8s would've raised the flop.

I think the 97 rivered straight is more likely than flopped straight. If BB has 74 then I pay him off and thank him for saving me a lot of bets (since I'd cap both flop and turn if someone fought back). Maybe I'm just a maniac /images/graemlins/grin.gif