HUH, wtf, reasonable flop call??????

[nrinker]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

[sy_or_bust]

Heads up this is a bad call if your plan is to fold the turn/river unimproved. Why bother? This is a tiny pot and you're easily dominated.

[LowDown22]

I'd fold the flop. I'm figuring that either yor Ace is dominated or your T outs could be already behind a bigger PP and thus worthless. You do have a backdoor flush draw. I estimate your hand worth around 4.5 to 5 outs. Not enough for me to continue here.

[easypete]

I would think about raising this pf.

On the flop... i dunno... don't like the paired board, but the SB doesn't have a 6 (or, let's just say shouldn't... it is PP after all). Do you have the odds to call?

You don't stand a good chance to have both cards live, but what will the SB raise w/ pf. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo, AJs, KQs, KQo.... maybe more hands... maybe less... depends on the read for SB.

You may be outkicked if an ace comes, you may be out-paired if a T comes. Give yourself about 2 outs here for the overcards and about 1.5 for the backdoor flush. You could probably give yourself about .5 outs for backdoor straight. You probably have 4 outs here. You are getting 8:1 on your call. You need to have 10.75:1 or better to call here. I think you can fold here safely.

Turn is a no-brainer. as is the river.

[nrinker]

exactly the thoughts flowing through my head, just played it like a cockroach and wanted to hear from you all.

[DontRaisePlz]

ATs is one of my "raise from all positions w/o hesitation" hands. Definitely raise it.

[wrto4556]

I don't raise this from that early in. The flop call is bad IMO. The pot is miniscule.&lt;----is that a word? I didn't know it existed i've been playing so long at party.

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
ATs is one of my "raise from all positions w/o hesitation" hands. Definitely raise it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's on my list too, but I think it has to do with post flop play. I remember when I would never think about raising ATs... now it's natural. I think you need to be comfortable with it.

And don't autoraise any hand. Understand your position vs the other players and types of players before you make a decision like this. If I'm UTG w/ ATs, I will not raise it if I can get a maniac on my left to raise it for me. I will get the pot more multiway than if I raise into a maniac and he 3-bets... I like it heads-up enough, but like it more multiway.

[Shillx]

You are joking right?

ATs is profitable to raise UTG for one.

The paired board is our friend in this case. We have chopping outs against AK-AJ if that is what we are up agianst. We have 3 outs against KK-TT no matter if the board is paired or not.

Brad

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn is a no-brainer. as is the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it is. I'd consider a semi-bluff raise here, depending on reads on SB.

[Shillx]

Anyone like a river raise? (this isn't saying I would do it but I'm just throwing it out there)

Brad

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Not a river raise, although tonight, maybe. PP .5/1 has been an insane asylum tonight with people raising anything and everything. That sustained betting just indicated he's got SOMETHING.

Of course, I may have beaten something with nothing tonight, so it may be a good idea... I'm not sure. If he has a mid pocket he's not folding because of one bet. If he has an Ace, he's so likely to have a better one, and he's probably not folding to a bet here.

I think a raise should be made somewhere, but I don't think the river is the place.

[nrinker]

I think a flop raise would be good here if i would have made the raise PF.

[cardcounter0]

Unlimited agression micro board yahoos:
raise preflop
raise the flop
raise the turn
3 bet the river.

Correct way to play the hand:
limp UTG.
missed the flop, fold.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[spamuell]

To all those people who are saying the pot is tiny on the flop, what are you talking about? Hero is getting 8:1 to call.

[adsman]

I'd raise the turn here. See if you can get a free showdown.

[coolhandj]

First off, I would not raise with ATs unless I was in mid position. the game would have to be extemely loose for that raise to be profitable (average of about 6 on every flop). I also do not believe that this pot is small, 7 bets to the flop is not a small pot, though the number of callers IS small.

given these facts, I like the preflop call. On the flop, I think calling is the worst choice here. I also feel the raising is the strongest choice, followed by folding.

If the small blind does not have a 6, then you have 6 outs against him and a backdoor draw to the nuts. when you raise, you force out opponents who have you 6 outs dominated. further more, it is just as possible that the SB has and 8 as a six. raising here gives valuable info on SB's hand, I would be suspect of MP2 if he cold called 2 bets here.

now that you have raised, its very possible the SB will reraise if he has a six. At this point I would probably choose to fold.

notice that raising here SAVED YOU one small bet. since now that you are sure he has a 6 you can fold, instead of being forced to call the SB's big bet on the turn when you hit your flush draw.

furthermore, even if the SB calls with a 6 on the flop
(there is a good chance his kicker is weak) you have probably bought yourself a freecard for that flush you hit on the turn.

to summarize
-this pot is not small and worth going after
-i would not raise preflop here
-since there are few players in with you, playing agressivly
is more valuable, raise the flop, don't call and play the guessing game.

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I would not raise with ATs unless I was in mid position. the game would have to be extemely loose for that raise to be profitable


[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

[ QUOTE ]

now that you have raised, its very possible the SB will reraise if he has a six. At this point I would probably choose to fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the preflop action? SB doesn't have a 6.

[DeathDonkey]

My experience is that AK checks here and an overpair never folds so no I don't like raising the river. Besides the super duper easy preflop raise I play this hand the same.

-DeathDonkey