Another 33, no set hand.

[rmarotti]

Villain was TAG. I was drunk with the power of reading Clarkmeister's 33 post, but when this hand was over I thought I played it like an idiot. Belloc thought it was a nice play. What do y'all think? Thanks.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[rmarotti]

Shameless .

[Fat Nicky]

ni han.

i'm still skeptical of the play though as to whether it works often enough to show a profit. I very solid read is required, IMO.

[Sir Limps Alot]

What are you calling for?
If you dont flop a set fold to a bet need to learn that with small pairs.

This hand is played poorly and you will lose alot of money playing this way.
Go read a book.

Are you serious?

Not worth a bluff.

[Kaz The Original]

Is limping UTG with 33 your default play?

[rmarotti]

Look! A troll!

[rmarotti]

Usually.

[Kaz The Original]

I wouldn't do it, unless the table was 4+ people in preflop 70% of the time.

[27offsooot]

little too much paint on the board and a little too small of a pot for me to like it.

[rmarotti]

Right. I'm probably 20/80 for limping/folding it if the table is generally becoming HU PF.

[27offsooot]

Usually trolls have better grammar than a 10 year old and are somewhat amusing. Chalk this post up to an adolescent.

[rmarotti]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
little too much paint on the board and a little too small of a pot for me to like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. If the turn were a card smaller than a jack, then I like it more. As is, I think I call it off (that is, fold) on the turn.

[tpir90036]

Looks like you probably had the best hand and he decided to see the river with his AT/AQ and then bail. You might be able to get a fold from 77-TT if the guy has a clue and thinks you are a tight player... otherwise I think it's just kind of "eh".

[Nick C]

AJs and AJo are possible for MP2 (as are things like QJs), but I suspect the reason you won is that you had the best hand.

You are getting 5.5 to 2 on the turn checkraise, and such a play could drive out hands like QQ and, against this opponent, probably will drive out TT-88.

He'll have AA, AK, KQ, and even KK and JJ a fair amount of the time instead, of course, and sometimes he will have AQs or ATs or AQo and won't fold and will then outdraw you.

So, let's see. I count 36 hand combinations that won't go away and have you crushed (6 AA's, 12 AK's, 12 KQ's, 3 KK's, and 3 JJ's). I see 6 that have you crushed but might fold to the checkraise (QQ). AJ (12 combinations) will be harder to get out on the turn (and obviously AcJc won't fold), but might fold unimproved on the river. 18 other hands probably will fold (TT-88). Some hands like AQ (16 combinations) and ATs (4 combinations) you are beating but could go on to lose to, and he may not lay them down immediately.

The range of hands I gave is too narrow for an open-raise from a TAG MP2, which may hurt you, actually, as we also have to consider hands like 77, KJo, and KTs.

As I look over these possible hands, I'm thinking your play is all right, so long as you're confident you have a decent amount of folding equity.

I wonder about the river bet, but maybe the chance of now finally driving out hands like AJ and QJs makes it worth it. Check-calling to potentially snap off a bluff from a busted draw would win at most one bet, while leading could steal the whole pot for you.

Edit: Now that I think about it more, I probably exaggerated your folding equity a little. The pot is fairly small, which should help, but it did also start out 3-handed, which doesn't.

[runa]

I think with a good read and up against a player that is a light raiser and capable of betting draws, unpaired overcards, and/or is weak-tight and thus capable of releasing a better hand (i.e. not a calling station) its ok.

Otherwise you're looking at a probable 6.5BB pot since we're assuming your opponent is calling your raise a good portion of the time (80-90%?), and you're sacrificing 3BB assuming the river bet is necessary on just about any blank card (or maybe others im not sure what you had in mind). It has to work a fairly high percentage 46% of the time (opponent folds on the river) that you are called on the turn, since I don't expect a worse hand to call you on the river. The folding equity on the turn might be balanced out by the times you are 3-bet and have to fold.

Against the wrong opponent I fully expect to get called on the river often and lose, so minus reads I don't really like it that much.

[belloc]

[ QUOTE ]
Belloc thought it was a nice play. What do y'all think?

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go putting words in my mouth again. What I said was...oh, right, I said, "Nice play."

Sometimes you'll just catch somebody folding too much when shown aggression on the big bet streets. They might even be (otherwise) aggressive postflop players, especially when they have the lead, or are confident in their ability to outplay another player. They'll often have TAG-type stats, but you'll just happen to catch them out of the corner of your eye on a couple of hands in a short period of time folding to turn or river raises, or mucking to reraises, and you can really take pots away from them if you're right in your read.

Now, I don't know if you were thinking this (I barely remember our conversation about it even though it was only four hours ago), but my guess is that you had something on this guy's habits that made you think he was just on overcards (but not a K!) and would fold to some big bet aggression.

Am I close?

[rmarotti]

Close? You're on top of it.