How to play this KK

[iceman5]

$2/$4 NL at Prima
I open raise from EP to $20 with KK and I get 2 callers (MP and the button). I just started so I have no reads other than the button played A7 and called a pot sized bet K97 flop.
I have $440, MP has $250, Button has me covered.


The pot is $66. The flop comes 964 with 2 clubs. I bet $50 and they both call. MP thought for a long time. I put him on JJ or TT. The button may have a draw.


The pot is $216. The turn is another 4. I was pretty confident MP had a smaller overpair then me so I want him in, but I dont want to let the button draw cheap. I pushed all in. Good move?

[maranello11]

I feel you played it right. You are making the button put the rest of his money in for a /images/graemlins/club.gif to hit or maybe even an A if he has one. I think if you made it 100-150 that would allow him to call especially if the other player with smaller pocket pair does as well. Like to hear what happened.

[AZK]

Well, you definitely didn't let them draw cheap. But seriously, this bet will only be called if one of them has a set and just filled up/hit quads, or if one of them is absolutely retarded. You want them to draw, you just don't want them to catch, I don't like putting my stack all in with hands like this. I think a 1/2 pot bet is much better.

[iceman5]

Thats why I posted the hand. Do I really want called?
If I bet half pot (or $100) let say, and MP calls, then the button will be calling $100 with $416 already in the pot. 4-1 is not bad if hes drawing to the flush and I still have another $270 behind for him to win if he hits. Or he can bluff a flush card.

It seems to me, that folding them off and protecting whats already in the pot may outweigh the benefits of keeping JJ in the hand.

[maranello11]

I agree

[Wayfare]

Overbetting the pot by this much makes it almost impossible for a competant player that is either on a draw or a set to make a mistake.

He will fold when behind / getting incorrect odds, and call when he has a set or two pair.

The caveat is, of course, will the player with a smaller overpair read your push as missed AK and call? That would make it an excellent play because you both protect your hand against the guy who has a good chance to beat you and get all your money in an a gigantic favorite vs. someone who is almost drawing dead.

[iceman5]

So what would you have done?

[Wayfare]

Well if MP really does have a worse overpair (if that is the case he played it weird) and has a chance to call, then you played it great.

[runnerunner]

I would be worried about two flat calls on the flop. The only hands that are going to call you here are sets. You are shutting out draws by betting $370 into a $216 pot, but you are also shutting out a smaller overpair, who you want a call from. The most common way for people to lose their stack in NL is overplaying an overpair.

[iceman5]

OK, I can buy that, but again....what would you have done?

[iceman5]

So heres what happened. I was fairly confident for some reason that MP had JJ and that the button had a draw which is why I went all in to kill his odds.
They both folded.
MP said "show please". I didnt show but told him " I had AK and had to get your JJ out of there".

He then said "damn it, how did you know I had JJ? If you play like that I'll get you later"

Follow up hand to follow

[quix0tic]

I like overbetting the turn when you are fairly sure you are ahead. As others have said, the pot is fairly large and your priority should be to take it down (assuming you have the best hand). I have been using this move much more lately and seen my bb/100 go up. I've even gotten lots of calls from bad players who refuse to let go of their draws, which needless to say is very profitable, esp on the turn. The flush draw on board not only gives you reason to protect but makes it less likely someone is slowplaying their set, top 2, etc. The only difference I might make would be to checkraise all in, as long as I was ~ 80- 90% that jj would bet. It generally will look like you bet the flop with overs and then gave up the turn. Assuming he is an aggressive player, he will feel the same pressure to take down the pot; you may be able to extract some more from him, possibily even tying him to the hand with only 2 outs to win. Slowplaying doesn't really hurt you unless you give a free card.

[nsj]

Looks good to me.

You have to figure with the club draw that a flopped set is going to check-raise you all-in. When they both call and a blank for drawing hands hits the turn, I like the overpush.

[technologic]

if you convince yourself that you are going to the felt with this hand, you'd probably want to bet the 3/4 pot -pot sized bet. that way, they are NOT getting the odds to draw for a flush but the price to draw is more attractive for lesser players and an overpair like JJ may call.