Simple Simple Top Pair

[bobbyi]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed)

SB ($31.1)
BB ($20.2)
UTG ($32.55)
UTG+1 ($31.7)
UTG+2 ($47.3)
MP1 ($20.5)
MP2 ($41.15)
MP3 ($75.7)
CO ($24.1)
Hero ($23.5)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises to $1</font>, MP1 calls $1, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls $1, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50.

Flop: ($6.25) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $6</font>

Preflop call is fine? What am I doing now on the flop?

[tbach24]

Pre-flop call is probably fine. I actually might re-raise to try and weed out the field (bad?). I think that you might wanna muck this. BB-UTG+2 might be slowplaying a set, and even though it looks as though MP1 could be protecting his Q, it could also be a set.

[MyMindIsGoing]

This is the reason I dislike KQ on the flop, and even more in a raised pot. You will have no idea where you are when a K or Q high flop hits.

[Raiser]

KQ can be a trouble hand in raised pots. I'd probably call here since it is likely that the other limpers will come along too and your suitedness gives you more ways to win. I don't really like a re-raise here because with 2 raises in you are, most likely, limiting the field to hands that beat you. And for a re-raise to fold out some of the limpers you'll have to jack it up a decent amount. I'm not a big fan of putting a lot of money in preflop with this hand.

This flop is good news/bad news. You want to keep the pot relatively small with this hand. With MP betting and UTG+2 possibly waiting to raise it up, I'd fold here.

[Tilt]

Preflop is fine.

I think your flop play depends so much on reads. If you have none, fold. If his VPIP is like 8% +, I would raise him on the flop. I would never, ever just flat call the flop here. If he reacts to your raise by calling quick and then firing again on the turn, id fold unimproved.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
If his VPIP is like 8% +, I would raise him on the flop. I would never, ever just flat call the flop here. If he reacts to your raise by calling quick and then firing again on the turn, id fold unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]
If I were to raise the flop, what would a good amount be? Note that his bet only leaves him with about $13.

[Tilt]

Just realized that when you pointed it out. At this level I would probably just set him all in. With no reads at this level he is doing this KT and KJ as often as any hand that beats you or splits. Thats somewhat reckless...but you should have some read to go by. If you have seen him folding hands and playing passively even for like one orbit its a fold IMO. You have to be careful about doubling up the small stacks if they are playing tight.

[ThePortuguee]

Preflop call is fine. It's hard to muck KQs with position to a minraised pot with a lot of action, and I'd make the same argument for any suited connectors 67s and up. The problem, though, with KQs is that it's pair value is high so it's hard to get away from a Q- or K-high board. So here you have one.

The bettor has a queen. He might ALSO have a paired kicker, and I suppose there's a small chance he's protecting a set, but probably he has a Queen, and read some poker book that told him a pot-sized bet will make it unprofitable to chance a turn flush with two hearts, here. Fine, his bet's actually not bad, because it might even push a thinking player off AQ. If you were heads up, I'd say call instantly, because at that level QT suited, JQ, even Q9 suited look good to people even raised pots. Too few players at that level give thought to domination for you to be overly worried about AQ to fold.

HOWEVER, there is the matter of the preflop raiser, who could very well have been raising preflop with a pocket pair and is now slowplaying a set. So I think the decision between calling and folding is close. The problem with raising is that you're pot committed, and without any knowledge as to UTG+2's hand (he was the pf raiser right?), you could, like someone mentioned, be commiting all your chips to a hand where the only callers have you beat. If you call, and UTG+2 calls, I think there's a good chance you have the best hand and can continue to the end. In which case you do the same thing as you would have raising, by getting all your chips in the middle. If you call and UTG+2 suddenly raises big, you can fold. I think that in this hand the bettor has you beat a relatively low percentage of the time, and UTG has you beat without about the same probability. I think in this hand you're behind about half the time, and you're getting a little better than 2-1 on your money, so a call is probably okay. But, if you have some sort of read on the bettor, if he's generally passive or tight, just fold and be done with it. Ditto if you've seen UTG+2 raise preflop then slowplay it when he hits the flop hard.

I'm going to admit, here, that this analysis is extremely debatable, since the prospect of flat calling does seem initially unattractive. But I think my arguments here have some validity.

[ihardlyknowher]

I am confused? This Party Poker we are talking about, right? MP1 is not the pre-flop raiser so his range of hands could be anything from QA-Q2, a set is much less likely. Just because BB-UTG+2 saw the flop for the min-raise and now checked, you are worried they could be slowplaying a set? This seems weak-tight. IMHO

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
If his VPIP is like 8% +, I would raise him on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean PFR?