The best approach to becoming an expert poker player

[Radio]

Iv been wandering about this for a long time, There are so many varitions of poker out their how can one become an expert poker player? I mean in texas holdem there :

Full ring : Limit
pot limit
No limit

6-Max : Limit
No limit
Pot limit
Heads up : limit
No limit
pot limit

And each one these are a different game requiring a different approach and style of play. Then you have all the other poker games each with their Limit, no limit and other sub variations.

I only really play full ring limit holdem so far and its hard enough for me to become really good at this let alone try and learn the other styles of poker or even the other styles of texas holdem. It seems that it would take along time to reach expert level at this one style of poker i play so when someone classes themselfs as a pro poker player would it be better to simply class your self as a pro texas holdem full ring limit player.

So would you say the best approach would be to concentrait on the one style you prefer and try to reach expert level at that and only change if your style becomes less popular and unprofitable. Or would you say its best to have a stint at all the different kinds of poker but probably never reach geinus level at any of them.

[Paul2432]

An expert poker player understands the underlying concepts and can implement them regardless of the variety of poker played.

The underlying concepts do not change, but may indicate different strategies in different structures.

Paul

[ProfLupin]

I think the key is realizing that there are no magic formulas for winning at poker. You have to study the theory and apply it to the game you're playing.

To be an expert player at a cirtain form of poker, you have to be able to beat that game against any number of players. So an expert limit player would be good HU or against 9 oponents.

I think you can be an expert limit holdem player and be mediocre at no limit, but I don't believe you can call yourself an expert limit 10 handed holdem player and be mediocre 5 handed or headsup. You might be more comfortable with more opponents, but I wouldn't call you an expert if you can't win short-handed.

[MyMindIsGoing]

Quote from Howard Lederer:

"There isn't a right way to play, it's a puzzle only you can solve for yourself."

[k_squared]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote from Howard Lederer:

"There isn't a right way to play, it's a puzzle only you can solve for yourself."

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be true, but there are definately WRONG ways to play... and lots of people who can't figure out the puzzle of the right way for them to play (at least in so far as their outcomes are not in line with their goals-you can be a recreational player who is not out to win money, and so be succeeding simply by having fun...)!

So, while this statement is true it is also misleading and it alone is not nuanced enough to add meaningfully to the conversation. It would be equivalent to saying "Any 2 cards can win," an obviously true statement but not an informative one!

So what do you think is the easiest way to become an expert player?
-k_squared

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you think is the easiest way to become an expert player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Time and effort. There are no shortcuts.

[k_squared]

[ QUOTE ]
An expert poker player understands the underlying concepts and can implement them regardless of the variety of poker played.

The underlying concepts do not change, but may indicate different strategies in different structures.

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

And so the question then becomes how does one thoroughly learn the underlying concepts that make a poker player an 'expert'?

Well you study and play in such a way that you are thinking about those concepts. You push yourself to think about interesting hands and constantly re-evaluate your play. You have to understand the meta game, and think about that to be an epert oker player rather than an expert at a particular style of game. Being able to adjust to the different structures (both within a single game and that result from changing games) is definately the key. You must realize that correct strategy is dictated by 2 things-the structure of the game and who you are playing!

-k_squared

[Mayhap]

Play three or four varieties of poker and cultivate patience.
/M

[TStoneMBD]

dont even play poker. read the strategic forums on this website. study the intricate discussions, and if you dont understand a concept, dont just move on, learn it. most people dont dedicate themselves to tackling a new concept they cannot understand, and they will never achieve expertise with this attitude.

[k_squared]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So what do you think is the easiest way to become an expert player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Time and effort. There are no shortcuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on Mind again that fails to really address the question. Lots of players put time and effort into playing without becoming an expert... so what does it take? What would you suggest to do?

I think what makes the question hard is that it takes cultivating a lot of different skills. Mason wrote an essay in "Poker Essays II" called 'Why there are so Few Great Players' in which he hypothesis that it is a result of the fact that being a great player requires that you excel at a large number of different aspects related to the game. Including aggression, knowing percentages, proper image cultivation, recognizing tells, reading hands well, manipulating opponents into making mistakes, not play too loose or too tight, understanding people, knowing your opponents, years of experience, check-raising properly, being good at buying cards, selecting good games, being good at short-handed play as well as full table, and a lot more... (list is paraphrased).

So, while there is no easy way to become an expert one concrete suggestion is to look at your own game and to choose one aspect of it to intentionally work on. Then after improving in that area choose another aspect to work on intentionally. I am willing to bet that it is impossible to improve in some of these areas without also affecting your play in others, which is to say by improving one area you will often also have ancillary improvements in others!

So, again while it is true that there is no easy way to become an expert player... we can give concrete advice on how we would approach achieving that goal that is better than simply saying... 'it takes work.' I hope I am not coming off as a prick, but those sorts of comments are just not particularly helpful in so far as they don't aid in having a productive discussion nor do they really answer his question. If you are going to take the time to reply, then take the time to reply in such a way that you are providing some insight and not just issuing forth a poker cliche.

Best of Luck
-k_squared

[k_squared]

[ QUOTE ]
dont even play poker. read the strategic forums on this website. study the intricate discussions, and if you dont understand a concept, dont just move on, learn it. most people dont dedicate themselves to tackling a new concept they cannot understand, and they will never achieve expertise with this attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think you can become an expert without playing? I am very dubious about this claim. I think your advice about really learning the concepts is a good one, but I also think it is true that there are often layers of understanding involved that only become apparent with enough experience. Often we can read something and understand it on a superficial level without even realizing that we don't fully understand it... an then we come back to it later and it makes sense on an entirely different level!

That being said, I think acombination of playing and study is the only way to vastly improve your game...

-k_squared

[inspectorgadget]

[ QUOTE ]
Play three or four varieties of poker and cultivate patience.
/M

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this. You should really only concentrate on one single style of poker, there is no reason to switch from one to another. You can stick with Limit Hold'Em - there will always be games to play, so there's no reason to become a professional in "all the styles." You don't have to be a Jack Of All Trades.

Also to the guy who said not to play poker, just to read strategies and stuff... that's bad advice too. It's best to be playing as you learn these strategies so the mind continualy has to comprehend situations where these strategies and guidelines should be applied. That will help a person learn much faster...

[k_squared]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Play three or four varieties of poker and cultivate patience.
/M

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this. You should really only concentrate on one single style of poker, there is no reason to switch from one to another. You can stick with Limit Hold'Em - there will always be games to play, so there's no reason to become a professional in "all the styles." You don't have to be a Jack Of All Trades.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tis true that you don't have to eb a jack of all trades, but you don't give any reasons why you shouldn't other than there will always be hold'em games.

Learning multiple games provides players with an advantage because learning the nuances involved in playing other games well will often inform your play in your game of choice. When we come to understand how to play a different game we can ask ourselves what causes that different approach to be correct. To truly understand 'poker' is to understand the underlying concepts so that you can adjust your game to the various structures and opponents. You can be an excellent hold'em player in a specific stlye of game without being an expert poker player...

Further, if you have skills in many games it is easier to find a good game to play because you can play whever the weakest competition is!

It is also worth noting that the 'big game' at the Bellagio is a rotating one in which a variety of games are played not just hold'em and stud...

Also, noting that the question was about being an expert poker player (not an expert hold'em player) it is probably best to play different games to accomplish this goal!

-k_squared

[Pokerscott]

Step #1 find an expert player

Step #2 get that expert player to play together with you (e.g. online play one hand together)

Step #3 for each decision, you announce what you would do and why and let the expert say what they would do. Have the expert explain the rationale behind their approach when they differ.

Step #4 repeat until your moves are highly correlated with the expert's.

This will get you pretty darn good pretty darn fast since you will know cold how to play the most common situations.

If you can't find an expert at least find a poker buddy that is comparable to you in skill and do the same (discussing the possibilities and giving rationale for your play).

Pokerscott

[KingDan]

Watch a lot of the Travel channel, tilt, and 2004 wsop reruns.

[gergery]

How to become an expert
- play lots of poker
- study the hands you have trouble with
- talk them over with others, read this forum
- read poker books
- have natural talent for it
- work hard to improve

Specialize in one game vs. branch out
- personally, I think becoming a specialist in one area and having good competencies in a couple related areas is the path to success in most career fields. Poker is no different as learning a second variant well allows you to stay fresh mixing up your game, and allows more game selection.

--Greg

[helpmeout]

You have to be able to put the puzzle of information together correctly when you are at the tables.

You need to read a lot of books and analyze situations.

Learning different games will help your main game because they focus on different skills.

Another aspect is the emotional and psychological side of the game to be an expert you need to master these as well.