Flopped Royal. How would you have played this and why? X-post from SSL

[Hulk Hogan]

I am interested in some broad opinion on how this should have been played. I think it was played properly and I got the max. However, in the SS forum the first two lightning responses were that I should have bet the flop and played it aggressively. I could not possibly disagree more with that strategy in this particular case, but I will save my comments as to why for later. I'd like to hear what you all think in the meantime.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

[JohnnyHumongous]

Depends on the read, but at a typical table I would bet the flop (following through on my preflop raise...) because frequently people will raise me on the flop to "slow things down" or because they feel they are ahead. You can then 3 bet the flop or just call and bet the turn.

It feels like your opponent had two pair aces up, so by betting you give your opponent a chance to raise you. This is a big change in thinking, believe me, as before I would definitely have played it your way. If the guy has AQ or TT he may wait for the turn to raise you, permitting a 3 bet and a LOT more money. Furthermore, by checking to him, he might check through the turn, which is a disaster for you. Also, he may lay down to your checkraise because it screams strength (preflop raise, then slowplay). AND, if the 4th club comes (as it did) most people won't call your bet there even if they called your checkraise on the turn (depends on the quality of the opponent... you got lucky that he called down). If you play it straight up the bets would already be in.

Then, there is the consideration that for the remainder of your hands at the table, every time you raise preflop you can represent flops galore, because people will remember how you played your flopped royal straight ahead. You miss more flops than you hit, but you can make people lay down readily. If you raise KJs again and the flop comes Q93, the BB with AT might readily lay down out of respect. Having people fear running into a monster when you bet out is super-valuable.

[deacsoft]

Don't forget to send the hand number to Party. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hulk Hogan]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget to send the hand number to Party. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that?

Do I get some sort of bonus!?

[VBM]

truly, i don't mean to sound glib so i apologize in advance if this response finds you irritated.

but, my God...but as a poker question, this one couldn't have less relevance. some people play for years and never get one, and when you do, you're talking about what? how to make 2? 3? 4? 5 BB more? whereas a more marginal situation, where you may be losing 1 or 2 BB or consistently getting the worst of it, could have a much larger order of magnitude...

i guess what i'm trying to say is, this is not a big problem. don't expend too much energy on it!

[BradL]

As fun as it is to show everyone that you flopped a royal flush it really isnt productive to dwell on the play of the hand. You will flop a royal flush so rarely that how you play it really doesnt matter one way or the other. Thinking in terms of flopped flushes in general (also rare but not even in the same rarity league as the flopped royal) may be productive.

Whenever the flop comes 3 of a suit it is better to play the hand very fast if you have the flush, be it the nut A high flush, the royal flush, or a small flush; it is best to play the hand fast. It is better to play the hand fast for three primary reasons:

1. If a 4th of suit hits it will likely kill the action if you are playing the nut flush against top two or a set.

2. If you flop the nut flush and are against lower drawing flushes and play it very fast you will likely be read for top two or a set. The lower draws will expect the made flush to play it slower and will give action drawing dead.

3. If you are playing the low flush and are likely against a hand drawing to the higher flush it is important to charge the the maximum for the draw. If it is not the nut flush it is also likely you will earn a cheap showdown if the 4th of suit hits.

Slowplaying a single suit flop screams "BIG FLUSH" or in your case "ROYAL FLUSH." It happens so infrequently (the royal flush) that dwelling on the hand is really unproductive but in terms of flopped flushes in general it is typically better to play them fast IMO.

-Brad

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]
but, my God...but as a poker question, this one couldn't have less relevance.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

-Brad

[Hulk Hogan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but, my God...but as a poker question, this one couldn't have less relevance.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

-Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

SO THEN DON'T RESPOND TO IT.

Christ, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to reply or even read the thread.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
but, my God...but as a poker question, this one couldn't have less relevance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree. Tthe same principles of how to play any monster on the flop apply. There is not some special "flopped royal" strategy that applies... Concepts can be learned from this hand that can be used in many similar circumstances.

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget to send the hand number to Party. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that?

Do I get some sort of bonus!?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. It isn't mush but they'll send you a free hat. I have two of them and a t-shirt from royal flushes. I figure I've already paid for that stuff many many times over in rake, so why not get something from them once in a while.

[BradL]

Actually I did offer a constructive response below. Please dont get angry Hulk, I wouldnt want to go the way of Andre The Giant...

-Brad

[VBM]

OK, if how to fully juice flopped, unbeatable monsters is your biggest problem, i'll be sure to steer clear.

for the rest of us...i dunno. we probably have bigger holes to fill. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[emonrad87]

Hey, lansing, et al - you've discussed this a few times already.

Nuff said.

[Dead]

Bingo.

It is so easy to spot.

It(Lansing the troll) always follows three steps

1)Posts a somewhat interesting hand

2)Argues with and insults everyone who responds within 5 minutes of first reply

3)Disappears a week later

Then it and repeats. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[SoftcoreRevolt]

[ QUOTE ]

Whenever the flop comes 3 of a suit it is better to play the hand very fast if you have the flush, be it the nut A high flush, the royal flush, or a small flush; it is best to play the hand fast. It is better to play the hand fast for three primary reasons:

1. If a 4th of suit hits it will likely kill the action if you are playing the nut flush against top two or a set.

2. If you flop the nut flush and are against lower drawing flushes and play it very fast you will likely be read for top two or a set. The lower draws will expect the made flush to play it slower and will give action drawing dead.


[/ QUOTE ]

A nice little pause before betting that flop will help too, in the hopes they sense you are afraid of that flush.

[Shillx]

I'm thinking that Cinnamond Wind and Lansing would have played it the same way. You play g00t.

Brad

[ThePimpulator]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but, my God...but as a poker question, this one couldn't have less relevance.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

-Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

SO THEN DON'T RESPOND TO IT.

Christ, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to reply or even read the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with them. And I dont think you should be so offended that they respond with this answer. These "getting the max from a monster posts" are increasing by the day and it just means more and more time wasted sorting through the clutter. They mean almost zero to the bottom line.

[ThePimpulator]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget to send the hand number to Party. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is that?

Do I get some sort of bonus!?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. It isn't mush but they'll send you a free hat. I have two of them and a t-shirt from royal flushes. I figure I've already paid for that stuff many many times over in rake, so why not get something from them once in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Youve had three?!?! OMFG party is rigged!!

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking that Cinnamond Wind and Lansing would have played it the same way. You play g00t.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
Youve had three?!?! OMFG party is rigged!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah. But with the amount of hands I've played in the past year and a half Party probably owes me a couple more. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[zephed56]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, lansing, et al - you've discussed this a few times already.

Nuff said.

[/ QUOTE ]
<font color="white">I've suspected since day one</font>