PDA

View Full Version : Bad beat or bad play?


zheka
02-17-2005, 08:25 PM
This is second or third hand of 50+5, so there is no reads.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t700)
UTG+1 (t955)
UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t835)
MP3 (t1320)
CO (t990)
Button (t975)
Hero (t985)
BB (t1240)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls t15, MP3 calls t15, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t75</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t75, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t75, CO folds.

Turn: (t315) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t325</font>, UTG+1 calls t325, MP3 folds.

River: (t965) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t570 (All-In)</font>, UTG+1 calls t540 (All-In).

Final Pot: t2075

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Qs 5c (two pair, queens and fives).
UTG+1 has Kc Kh (two pair, kings and threes).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t2045. Hero wins t30. </font>

Allinlife
02-17-2005, 08:29 PM
I'd play it same

obex
02-17-2005, 08:34 PM
I think this is mostly bad luck but I would favor checking (and then calling) on the river. You may induce a bluff if you are against a diamond draw that will fold to your bet otherwise. But if someone has a better hand, I don't see you ever laying down your two pair.

Pokerscott
02-17-2005, 08:54 PM
Assume your opponent is decent...

Tell me what they have after they have called the turn bet that you can beat after the river?!?

I can think of lots of hands you beat after the turn (AQ KQ QJ), but next to nothing you beat after the river. Your turn bet should have made the flush draws go away, so what do you beat?!? (88-JJ maybe, but that is a pretty poor turn call)

I probably check/fold on the river. I might call a small value bet but I really would feel I am beat...

Pokerscott

rohjoh
02-17-2005, 09:06 PM
Hands like this are an arguement for folding the SB in early rounds for 5 more chips with junk like Q5o. These hands just get you into trouble.
Your bet on the flop of 75 was too small. Two pair is probably good at that point, and it is better to overbet the pot, and win it there than let someone draw out with a flush or higher two pair on the turn and river. A caller is getting a little better than 2-1 on his chips, which is good enough pot odds to call on most draws. A bet of 3x does not give proper odds unless there is more than one caller. If you are beat, you will know it when you are called or raised, and can then check it down or fold to a raise. Problem here is your opponent thought he had the best hand with no over cards on the board, and was not going to lay his hand down. So a 2x or 3x pot bet on the flop would have saved you the 600-700 chips you lost on the turn and river.

Your bet on the river was wrong as well. What did you think your opponent could have? Maybe I could see AQ, or Axd, but you had to put him on a strong hand? Were'nt you worried about a set when he called your turn bet? The river was a must check, even if you thought he missed his draw, you are not getting any value for your bet. Only way you get called is if you are beat.

illab
02-17-2005, 09:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I can think of lots of hands you beat after the turn (AQ KQ QJ), but next to nothing you beat after the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I understand, wouldn't he still be beating all of these hands.

Elektrik
02-17-2005, 09:07 PM
Your Queens and fives have his Queens and three's beat if he's playing AQ. The only hands that improved on the river are a 3, or an overpair.

Pokerscott
02-17-2005, 09:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Your Queens and fives have his Queens and three's beat if he's playing AQ. The only hands that improved on the river are a 3, or an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep misspoke. After the turn should have been after the flop. The question I was trying to get at is what do you have beat after the turn call.

rohjoh
02-17-2005, 09:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The only hands that improved on the river are a 3, or an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about 77 or Q7?