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MichaelD
09-03-2002, 04:55 PM
WILD 15-30 HAND

I am in middle position in a pretty aggressive 15-30 game.

PRE-FLOP Utg limps and pot gets raised behind him. There is one cold caller and I three-bet with JJ. The button calls. The button is a loose sometimes-wild player who sees a lot of flops but plays well after the flop. The initial raiser is a very weak loose player but he does not raise much pre-flop. The cold caller could have any two cards as he plays a ton of hands and you never know where he is in the hand. The blinds fold, utg now folds, we see the flop 4 handed.

FLOP The flop comes 58J rainbow. WOW, What a great flop for my hand. It is bet into me and called, I decide to call and try to back raise the flop, as I am pretty sure the button will raise. I call, and as planned, the aggressive button raises. The initial bettor now re-raises, cold caller still calling, I now cap the pot.

TURN The turn puts a 7 of clubs on board. The board now reads 58J7 with 2 clubs. It is checked to me and I bet. The button raises, the flop bettor now calls, cold caller calls, I re-raise, and all call with the button going all-in.

I cannot believe I have not lost anyone yet!!!

RIVER The river puts the 10 of spades on board so the board now reads 58J710. Any 9 makes a straight. It is checked to me, what is my play here? Do I value bet here and risk getting check-raised? Results to follow in a separate post.

All comments appreciated.

Just some thoughts...

Michael D.
MichaelD
09-03-2002, 04:58 PM
RESULTS

After it was checked to me, I decided to go ahead and risk getting check-raised. The decision was made a little easier, and I do mean little, because the button was all in. I was still somewhat worried that the cold caller throughout could have a 9 but I really think he would have bet it on the river. The initial bettor on the flop called me. The cold caller now folded; he later told me he had AK. He had stayed until the end with over cards!!! I turned over my set of Jacks, the caller had a set of Fives, and the all in button had a set of Eights. WOW. The pot was obviously a nice one. It has been a while since I have seen set over set over set on the flop. I can only think of a couple of instances.

Just some thoughts...

Michael D
Noo Yawk
09-03-2002, 05:02 PM
I'm sure several people will disagree with me, but I would not value bet here. If anyone has the 9, they are waiting for either you or the button to bet so they can raise. I'd check-call.
MichaelD
09-03-2002, 05:08 PM
Thanks NY for the response. The button cannot bet in this circumstance because he is all in. Would this affect your play here?

Just some thoughts...

Michael D.
09-03-2002, 05:12 PM
Michael,

Given your description of your opponents and the fact that they both checked to you on the river, I think that it is unlikely either is holding a 9. I would bet and expect at least one of them to call. If you do get check-raised you have to call based upon the size of the pot.
I would be concerned, though, that the button may have you beat. Although he could be holding a hand like 88 or 55, his play is also consistent with holding a hand like T9s.

-- Manzanita
Noo Yawk
09-03-2002, 05:49 PM
No it wouldn't. You were still an aggressor. Yesterday I hit a nut flush on the flop, and went three bets on the turn with 2 other players. A 4th club hit the river and utg checked, MP checked, and I just knew UTG hit his 45 to 1 straight flush. I checked, and I was right. Don't get me wrong, you need to value bet often, but don't throw away any more money if you feel there is a good chance your beat.
09-03-2002, 06:06 PM
Value bet the river here, With the type of player you described they would most likely bet into with this river card if they had a 9. If the button has the 9(doubtful) he can not hurt you. Glad to see your post.


Swiss Cheese
09-03-2002, 06:13 PM
I thought you might like this, the other night in a 10-20 local card room. There was set over set over set on the flop and the nut straight. Flop of 10-8-7. The straight took down a nice pot.


Swiss Cheese
MichaelD
09-03-2002, 06:25 PM
Swiss Cheese,

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, you are right, I would have loved to have seen the action in that hand!!

Just some thoughts...

Michael D.
Mikey
09-04-2002, 01:56 AM
I wonder if you would be as enthusiastic putting up this post if you were in there with the middle set and lost this pot.

Just kidding. Nice hand.
MichaelD
09-04-2002, 02:05 AM
LOL Mikey - very good point.

Just some thoughts...

Michael D.