AK early on for those who are having trouble

[johnnybeef]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t2410)
MP3 (t875)
CO (t370)
Button (t775)
SB (t555)
BB (t730)
UTG (t595)
Hero (t915)
MP1 (t775)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t105</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t45.

Flop: (t235) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets t265 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t500


for all of those who are having trouble with their preflop play...in this spot i found myself w ak in ep. my plan was a standard raise of 3xbb (i think that due to multitabling, i was a bit unprecise with the slide button). if i get a caller i will bet the size of the pot on the flop regardless of what hits. with several callers i am going to need to hit. unfortunately my plan did not work as i got raised. time for a new plan (poker is a very dynamic game). he raised me a minimal amount, i am out of position but i have ~35% of a chance of hitting tptk which is most likely enough to double up with so i do have implied odds on my side. the flop comes and i totally miss. time to check and fold. even if i do have him dominated it is not worth my stack this early in a sng to find out.

I hope this helps some of you who are having problems with preflop play/playing ak. furthermore, i invite all criticisms from those who feel it is warranted.

johnny

[raptor517]

what could someone possible min reraise you with? AA about oh, 90% of the time. so i think your TPTK would be no good, but he didnt have enough chips for you to double up with anyway. limp call the 50 fold on the flop, no more bleeding chips

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
what could someone possible min reraise you with? AA about oh, 90% of the time. so i think your TPTK would be no good, but he didnt have enough chips for you to double up with anyway. limp call the 50 fold on the flop, no more bleeding chips

[/ QUOTE ]
so basically you agree with him.

[curtains]

No way in hell they have AA 90% of the time they minraise. You wont believe how many times they turn over A9s or 77 or something like this. It always amazes me.

[raptor517]

no, i dont agree with him. i said limp, not raise. thanks though.

[raptor517]

ok ok, probably not 90, i wasnt really being serious with that. but anyways, i rather limp call a raise and only have to invest 50 or so to miss the flop.

[curtains]

Nothing terrible about limping with AK, it's just not my style. In Multis I limp with it more often. In sit and gos I like to try to define the situation as quickly as possible.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
limp call the 50 fold on the flop,

[/ QUOTE ]
sorry the absent of a comma between "limp" and "fold," confused me. i wasnt being an ass just asking a question, no need to be grumpy.

[assron]

I'd put him all in preflop and save myself the postflop decision. You only have to be 40% against his range of hands to make the pot odds correct, and I think you're doing at least that well. Raptor wins more than I do though, so I dunno.

[raptor517]

i would be much more inclined to raise with AK utg in a multi because it is probably +chip ev but with more risk. in a multi you have to play a riskier style to succeed and build those chips early. thats not necessary in a sng.

[curtains]

For me I always feel like it's a little safer to raise. Helps you figure out where you are at, eliminates garbage hands that might beat you if you hit a good flop etc etc.
In general feel a lot more comfortable playing when I hit top pair if I raised preflop.

[curtains]

I would play the hand the same as johnny beef did after the reraise. No way Im reraising there this early in the tournament

[curtains]

btw Raptor Im not really debating with you. I don't think limping with AK is bad or anything, I just like to raise with it most of the time.

[Irieguy]

Ok, first of all, this monkey that's min-raising you has lost half of his stack in level one. His min-raise does not mean he has aces 90% of the time. You have to push and race him with what's going to be a favorite most of the time. You will die ahead if you do this in this circumstance every time.

What you absolutely CAN'T do is call and check/fold if you miss the flop. If you want to fold preflop, fine. But your line is the worst of 3 options.

You described your thought process in this hand as though you didn't realize how many chips he had left. If you have AK against a short stack you either race or fold. You never want to find yourself in a heads-up situation against a short stack when you hold AK and then fold on the flop to their mandatory bet.

[ QUOTE ]
if i get a caller i will bet the size of the pot on the flop regardless of what hits

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you do that? You might want to play two overcards differently than you would play an ace-high straight.

But in this particular hand against a short stack who is clearly on a mission to get the hell out of this SNG... you should be willing to race.

[ QUOTE ]
even if i do have him dominated it is not worth my stack this early in a sng to find out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if it would cost you your whole stack (which it wouldn't here) it's certainly worth it if you are dominating someone.

Irieguy

[curtains]

Holy crap my bad, I totally didnt look at the CO's stack size. 100% Id reraise allin preflop and I agree with Irieguy that calling and check folding flop is bad and it's not close.
Forgive me for my original lack of reading comprehension.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
ok ok, probably not 90, i wasnt really being serious with that. but anyways, i rather limp call a raise and only have to invest 50 or so to miss the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i see your point, but i like to be the one driving the bus.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
You described your thought process in this hand as though you didn't realize how many chips he had left.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you are right. wow, i feel like a horses patoot.

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd put him all in preflop and save myself the postflop decision. You only have to be 40% against his range of hands to make the pot odds correct, and I think you're doing at least that well. Raptor wins more than I do though, so I dunno.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think pushing all your chips in this early is the best play. Even with pot odds. What range would someone be raiseing your UTG raise? I would think at best you are a coin flip, worst case you are a 92% dog. The blinds are 10/15, and there will be plenty of time to get your chips in as a favorite, not as a coin flip. Save the coin flips until the bubble. I think Raptor played this correctly.

[assron]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, first of all, this monkey that's min-raising you has lost half of his stack in level one. His min-raise does not mean he has aces 90% of the time. You have to push and race him with what's going to be a favorite most of the time. You will die ahead if you do this in this circumstance every time.

What you absolutely CAN'T do is call and check/fold if you miss the flop. If you want to fold preflop, fine. But your line is the worst of 3 options.

You described your thought process in this hand as though you didn't realize how many chips he had left. If you have AK against a short stack you either race or fold. You never want to find yourself in a heads-up situation against a short stack when you hold AK and then fold on the flop to their mandatory bet.

[ QUOTE ]
if i get a caller i will bet the size of the pot on the flop regardless of what hits

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you do that? You might want to play two overcards differently than you would play an ace-high straight.

But in this particular hand against a short stack who is clearly on a mission to get the hell out of this SNG... you should be willing to race.

[ QUOTE ]
even if i do have him dominated it is not worth my stack this early in a sng to find out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if it would cost you your whole stack (which it wouldn't here) it's certainly worth it if you are dominating someone.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely... this is pretty much the same line of thought that lead me to suggest a push as well, but you explained it about 200 times better than I did.

you have to give yourself a chance to win this hand, and potentially folding to a missed AQ/AJ/KQ/AT (what's the buyin?) isnt a profitable play. You're 2.1:1 to flop a pair, right? but your odds of winning this hand are clearly better than that. You have to take full advantage here.

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd put him all in preflop and save myself the postflop decision. You only have to be 40% against his range of hands to make the pot odds correct, and I think you're doing at least that well. Raptor wins more than I do though, so I dunno.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think pushing all your chips in this early is the best play. Even with pot odds. What range would someone be raiseing your UTG raise? I would think at best you are a coin flip, worst case you are a 92% dog. The blinds are 10/15, and there will be plenty of time to get your chips in as a favorite, not as a coin flip. Save the coin flips until the bubble. I think Raptor played this correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nevermind, I just read irieguys post, and realized that I did not look at CO stack size. Pushing here is the right play.

[AA suited]

so best line is to re-raise all-in preflop vs the short stack.

2nd best line is to push on the flop.

worst line is to check/fold on the flop vs the shortstack.

but what if you didnt have 2x the chips. what if you had 900 and he had 700 chips in this situation? calling pre-flop seems ok but what to do on the flop?