What Theory Would You Use?

[Vee Quiva]

Freezout tournament. 6 players left, 5 make money. 3 Table Party Poker payout structure. Everyone has even stacks of 5000. Blinds are 300-600.

Theory proposed in Sklansky and Brunson books is that with high antes and low amount of players you should loosen up your starting card standards, play more hands, and be aggressive.

Tournament theory says you should play tight until someone is eliminated and guarantee a profit.

Game theory says figure out what everyone else is doing and do something to counteract it.

I posted the real life example on the MTT board and did not get much response. I thought I would try here. I am looking for a discussion of the merits of each style of play in this situation.

[tek]

In this situation everyone will tighten up until the bubble player is out. So you could loosen up and steal some blinds.

Also, after it is down to 5 players your starting hands have to be looser anyway.

[Bluegoose75]

Alot of it depends on what your intended goal is. Quite a few players feel the risk of stealing blinds when everyone tightens up and playing a bit looser gives you the advantage to build up your stack and put you in a better position to make a move for 1st with the possibility of risking more in the immediate term of not making the top 5 to get paid.

It boils down to how skilled you view your game versus those at the table with you also. If you feel that you can outplay them then loosen up to put yourself in a position to win, if you feel that you're just lucky to be there then maybe play tight to get in the money.

Also, I'm not 100% sure that tourney theory is that you should tighten up at this point. I think it's moreso that players tend to do it. Meaning it's almost subconscious that they are tightening up rather than a 'proven theory' that tightening up is advantageous.

[Vee Quiva]

I feel like I have more skill than the other players at the table. (Then again doesn't everyone feel this way?). The problem is the blinds are so high that luck becomes a much bigger factor than the relative skill level of the players.

Does this weigh the scales more towards going all in more frequently to steal the blinds?

[Bluegoose75]

I don't see where you have to go all in to steal blinds. That to me is extreme risk for little payout. If you are concerened about the blind structure then loosen your play or else, as you have eluded to, the blinds will kill you. You can make the Odds highly unfavorable for any mediocre hands to call with half pot raises, no need to go all in. Keep the pressure on them, given that we're talking about players wanting to make the bubble cut, by nature of your question they are playing overly tight, just keep the pressure on them with raises of 3-4 BB and you'll be getting better than expected odds because your Fold Equity has gone up quite a bit.

[Jerrod Ankenman]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see where you have to go all in to steal blinds. That to me is extreme risk for little payout. If you are concerened about the blind structure then loosen your play or else, as you have eluded to, the blinds will kill you. You can make the Odds highly unfavorable for any mediocre hands to call with half pot raises, no need to go all in. Keep the pressure on them, given that we're talking about players wanting to make the bubble cut, by nature of your question they are playing overly tight, just keep the pressure on them with raises of 3-4 BB and you'll be getting better than expected odds because your Fold Equity has gone up quite a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, let me get this straight. You think it's better to raise to, say, 1800-2400 and then do what if they jam? Call? This is the same as jamming preflop except that they have more options and they might think they have fold equity, which might embolden them to jam more often. Fold? I hope I don't need to comment on how bad this is.

If your opponents play like hosers it doesn't matter all that much what you do. If your opponents play at all well, raising little amounts with stacks of 9x the BB is horrible.

[Bluegoose75]

I can't see where jamming preflop is wise either to just steal blinds. What do you do if they call then?

What I'm suggesting is to loosen up, not create a situation where you turn into a maniac just to steal blinds. The goal is to put yourself in a position to win once everyone is in the money instead of just finishing in the money short stacked.

If it's a table of 5 players that suddenly tighten up, it behoves you to loosen up anyway, money or otherwise. What I'm saying is you loosen your cards up a bit, but your betting shouldn't be out of line.

To answer your question, if they call then jam up after the flop then if it misses you, OF COURSE you fold, how is that a bad play? If they call and check to you then yes, you jam them up.

Based on what this scenario, you're at a short handed table, you have a preflop caller and he either jams (you're probably behind in the hand) or he checks (call then check with 40% of his chip stack gone? weak hand) or some middle range bet (I see no reason why he'd do this at all). In any case I'm not saying you're bluffing your way into this, I'm saying you play a little bit more loose than the other guys to take advantage of the bubble effect.

[TStoneMBD]

alot of what youve said is incorrect according to authorities. with a 10xbb stack or less, pushing allin is the standard when raising preflop, as raising 30% of your stack is terrible.

[Bluegoose75]

Then I stand corrected.