% of flops seen

[Paully]

I have been playing Holdem for a while, and I am just curious as to what percentage of flops should be seen. I have never seen anything on this. A range would be good, like 3%-5%. Any help would be appreciated.

[TStoneMBD]

19%. its called VP$IP.

[stenaf]

VP$IP and % flops seen is not the same thing. % flops seen includes if you check in BB, this is not the case with VP$IP.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

it very much depends on game. In generel if u see more thean 20% thats to loose in a normal game except smallstakes. A value between 15-20 is very good.

VP$IP is not seen flops. It is the times that u deside to enter the pot AND your not in the blinds position.

Good luck! /images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

/Robert

[TStoneMBD]

vpip means voluntarily put money in pot, which means that completing in the small blind or calling a raise in the big blind adds to your VPIP. but yes, checking in the big blind doesnt add to this %, but you easily calculate how often your bb isnt raised, so you can add that to your % to see how often you see a flop.

[Pepsquad]

It's not a statistic you should be too concerned with over the course of a single session. But I usually find that when I'm playing my A game at limit - 10 handed ring game that I'm in the neighborhood of 18-22%.

[bobbyi]

If you limp and then it gets raised and reraised behind you and you decide to fold, you have voluntarily put money in the pot preflop, but not seen the flop.

[TStoneMBD]

youre not helping!

[ACW]

Another difference is if you raise and everyone folds - you've put money in but not seen a flop.

I find this question interesting because I don't have PT (so don't know my VPIP), but the sites I play automatically track the % of flops I see.

[Paully]

I don't know how much it matters to my game or anyone elses, but I haven't read about it in any books or anything and I would think they would say something about it in books. Something like "If you see 25% of flops you are playing too loose or if you don't see 15% of flops thats too tight" I have never seen it so I was curious.

[bobbyi]

Mason once wrote an essay on exactly this topic. He said that a good player will see about 15% of flops. However, this is very game-dependent, so that may be way off for the game you play. Note that if you are in a passive nine-handed game where almost no hands are raised preflop, you would be seeing more than 10% of flops just from the times you get free plays in the BB, so 15% would clearly be low. He was talking about a "typical" (at the time the essay was written) moderately tough/ tight/ aggressive mid-limit game.